Could this election outcome reset party practices?

[MLCKAA 506]

And now the question is “What message does this send to democrats?”  I would hope this is a wake up call to stop “grooming” candidates and letting career public sector people feel like they’re entitled to the office.  

Maybe both parties will start looking for candidates who are qualified and picked from the best among us.  No one could seriously say that Harris was either of those things.

Could this Trump victory usher in a new era for the two big parties, where they choose their candidates based on experience rather than “electability”?

[Mike Hunt 171]

4 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

And now the question is “What message does this send to democrats?”  I would hope this is a wake up call to stop “grooming” candidates and letting career public sector people feel like they’re entitled to the office.  

Maybe both parties will start looking for candidates who are qualified and picked from the best among us.  No one could seriously say that Harris was either of those things.

Could this Trump victory usher in a new era for the two big parties, where they choose their candidates based on experience rather than “electability”?

Most likely.  The Democratic party is in trouble

Dems need a new direction, need to be middle left. Not taking a stand on the border crisis, letting men compete against women and thinking that is fair has hurt the party. 

[cmh6476 913]

It'd be cool, but I doubt it. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,078]

They can start with corralling unhinged lunatics like Robert DeNiro and putting them out to pasture. They don’t help. Take their money and then tell them to stfu. 

[Hawkeye21 2,191]

I really hope that the next election provides us with much better candidates.  This era of Trump and Biden as our best options has got to end.

[MLCKAA 506]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

I really hope that the next election provides us with much better candidates.  This era of Trump and Biden as our best options has got to end.

I agree.  I look back on the elections from my adult years and think about guys like Perot, Forbes, Romney…these guys should’ve been presidents.

[RLLD 3,919]

This is an opportunity.

Democrats can use this outcome to really look inward and force a push away from the far left and more toward the center.  They have 4 years to really make change that would allow them to restore the perception of people that they are not simply devotes to fringe radical interests.  

It is entirely doable.  But it has to start with an admission that they have been wrong in how they conducted themselves, and that will be not merely challenging, but painful for them.

[jerryskids 6,135]

30 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

I agree.  I look back on the elections from my adult years and think about guys like Perot, Forbes, Romney…these guys should’ve been presidents.

 

27 minutes ago, RLLD said:

This is an opportunity.

Democrats can use this outcome to really look inward and force a push away from the far left and more toward the center.  They have 4 years to really make change that would allow them to restore the perception of people that they are not simply devotes to fringe radical interests.  

It is entirely doable.  But it has to start with an admission that they have been wrong in how they conducted themselves, and that will be not merely challenging, but painful for them.

I dunno... in 2016 the leftie pseuds who run the party thought they lost because half of the country is racist misogynist nazis.  Eight years later, I'm confident they think the same thing.  They seem incapable of introspection, unable to understand why everyone doesn't sign up for the party of high inflation, transing kids, boys in girls sports, wide open borders, muslim terrorists, and free stuff instead of meaningful jobs.   

Hopefully they prove me wrong.

On the Right, obviously it will be viewed as validation -- victory always is.  I wonder what will happen in 4 years.  My fear is that our candidate will be somebody basically appointed by Trump, who will try to be Trumpian, not realizing that only Trump can be Trump.  Someone like Desantis, Haley, Gabbard would be great.  Vance I think would govern less MAGA-ish, but we'll see how the next 4 years go.  Also he is quite young.

[Strike 4,732]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

 

I dunno... in 2016 the leftie pseuds who run the party thought they lost because half of the country is racist misogynist nazis.  Eight years later, I'm confident they think the same thing.  They seem incapable of introspection, unable to understand why everyone doesn't sign up for the party of high inflation, transing kids, boys in girls sports, wide open borders, muslim terrorists, and free stuff instead of meaningful jobs.   

Hopefully they prove me wrong.

On the Right, obviously it will be viewed as validation -- victory always is.  I wonder what will happen in 4 years.  My fear is that our candidate will be somebody basically appointed by Trump, who will try to be Trumpian, not realizing that only Trump can be Trump.  Someone like Desantis, Haley, Gabbard would be great.  Vance I think would govern less MAGA-ish, but we'll see how the next 4 years go.  Also he is quite young.

J.D. Vance is 40 years old.  He'll be 44 if/when he runs for President.  That's not too young IMO.  Do we want all our candidates to be geriatric old people?  And he'll have four years of learning the job under his belt, something literally no one else will have, at least from his party.  It would give us stability and continuity in the office for once.  The GOP hasn't had consecutive terms since when?  There is a lot of work to do so I'd like them to have the time to do it.  We'd be so much better off if Covid hadn't hit and Trump had had two consecutive terms to implement his/our agenda.  Absent something disqualifying happening over the next four years I'm all in on J.D.

 

[Nomad99 633]

23 minutes ago, Strike said:

J.D. Vance is 40 years old.  He'll be 44 if/when he runs for President.  That's not too young IMO.  Do we want all our candidates to be geriatric old people?  And he'll have four years of learning the job under his belt, something literally no one else will have, at least from his party.  It would give us stability and continuity in the office for once.  The GOP hasn't had consecutive terms since when?  There is a lot of work to do so I'd like them to have the time to do it.  We'd be so much better off if Covid hadn't hit and Trump had had two consecutive terms to implement his/our agenda.  Absent something disqualifying happening over the next four years I'm all in on J.D.

 

This

[jerryskids 6,135]

43 minutes ago, Strike said:

J.D. Vance is 40 years old.  He'll be 44 if/when he runs for President.  That's not too young IMO.  Do we want all our candidates to be geriatric old people?  And he'll have four years of learning the job under his belt, something literally no one else will have, at least from his party.  It would give us stability and continuity in the office for once.  The GOP hasn't had consecutive terms since when?  There is a lot of work to do so I'd like them to have the time to do it.  We'd be so much better off if Covid hadn't hit and Trump had had two consecutive terms to implement his/our agenda.  Absent something disqualifying happening over the next four years I'm all in on J.D.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Vance.  But  I'm not all in on him yet. I want to see how his 4 years go.  Four years of learning on the job is good, if he's good at it and does stuff.  Kamala had four years on the job, and did nothing.

I don't want a geriatric candidate, more like someone in their 50s ideally.  In private industry, a 40-something rarely runs a major corporation unless (1) he founded it, or (2) he was a superstar who skyrocketed his way up there.

Also I tend to prefer governors because they have actually run a major government entity.  That would include Desantis, Haley, and (I'd love him to get involved) Doug Ducey, our former governor in AZ.  I wasn't a fan of Obama with his experience of one senate term of mostly "present" votes, and community organizing.  Although in fairness, the country ran fine under him.

[Strike 4,732]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

Don't get me wrong, I like Vance.  But  I'm not all in on him yet. I want to see how his 4 years go.  Four years of learning on the job is good, if he's good at it and does stuff.  Kamala had four years on the job, and did nothing.

I don't want a geriatric candidate, more like someone in their 50s ideally.  In private industry, a 40-something rarely runs a major corporation unless (1) he founded it, or (2) he was a superstar who skyrocketed his way up there.

Also I tend to prefer governors because they have actually run a major government entity.  That would include Desantis, Haley, and (I'd love him to get involved) Doug Ducey, our former governor in AZ.  I wasn't a fan of Obama with his experience of one senate term of mostly "present" votes, and community organizing.  Although in fairness, the country ran fine under him.

I think I addressed your first paragraph in my last sentence of my post so we agree there.

I don't have a problem with Desantis.  I thought he would have been the better choice early on for this election.  Looks like I was wrong on that one.  Not a huge Haley fan for some reason.     Can't tell you why but she rubs me the wrong way.  Have always like Tulsi but can't really see putting someone up for Prez who just registered for the party and has little track record within the party.  I don't know anything about Ducey but would look in to him if he ran.  Your endorsement of him makes me curious for sure.   Hopefully there will be a primary and we can pick the best option.

At least we can have a rational discussion of who Trump's successor should be.   Who are the Dems gonna offer up?  Mayor Buttplug?  Pass.  Dude would be on maternity leave his entire term.  Can't throw Kamalatoe out there again.  Hitlery?  Who do they even have?  Not to mention that their party is being torn apart between the actual moderates, some of whom likely moved red during this cycle, and the extremists.  It will be interesting to see if the tell their stances change over the next four years as a party.  Because if they keep trotting out these extreme progressive ideas we're going to run the government for the next decade at least.

[jerryskids 6,135]

10 minutes ago, Strike said:

I think I addressed your first paragraph in my last sentence of my post so we agree there.

I don't have a problem with Desantis.  I thought he would have been the better choice early on for this election.  Looks like I was wrong on that one.  Not a huge Haley fan for some reason.     Can't tell you why but she rubs me the wrong way.  Have always like Tulsi but can't really see putting someone up for Prez who just registered for the party and has little track record within the party.  I don't know anything about Ducey but would look in to him if he ran.  Your endorsement of him makes me curious for sure.   Hopefully there will be a primary and we can pick the best option.

At least we can have a rational discussion of who Trump's successor should be.   Who are the Dems gonna offer up?  Mayor Buttplug?  Pass.  Dude would be on maternity leave his entire term.  Can't throw Kamalatoe out there again.  Hitlery?  Who do they even have?  Not to mention that their party is being torn apart between the actual moderates, some of whom likely moved red during this cycle, and the extremists.  It will be interesting to see if the tell their stances change over the next four years as a party.  Because if they keep trotting out these extreme progressive ideas we're going to run the government for the next decade at least.

Ducey was the founder of Cold Stone Creamery, so he has business experience as well.  He's conservative, but seemed able to reach across the aisle and get stuff done.  He's only out because he reached his term limit.  The only "problem" is that he is not a rah-rah guy, he's pretty reserved.

[Sean Mooney 1,798]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

At least we can have a rational discussion of who Trump's successor should be.   Who are the Dems gonna offer up?  Mayor Buttplug?  Pass.  Dude would be on maternity leave his entire term.  Can't throw Kamalatoe out there again.  Hitlery?  Who do they even have?  Not to mention that their party is being torn apart between the actual moderates, some of whom likely moved red during this cycle, and the extremists.  It will be interesting to see if the tell their stances change over the next four years as a party.  Because if they keep trotting out these extreme progressive ideas we're going to run the government for the next decade at least.

Off the top of my head for Democrats I'd say in no particular order:

Gavin Newsom

JB Pritzker

Wes Moore

Hakeem Jefferies

Ruben Gallego

Josh Shapiro

Gretchen Whitmer might have to wait but she might be there as a choice.

Pete Buttigeg will probably get a look.

 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,878]

The amazing part is that he has the senate, house, and supreme court. I am praying for his safety

[Hardcore troubadour 14,078]

The first I remember a celebrity being this out about politics was Charlston Heston. This needs to stop now. It’s out of hand having to listen to these insufferable clowns.  

[porkbutt 891]

so can it make the dems not retarded freaks? i doubt it.

 

[Fnord 1,655]

It would be great if the Dems took this one to heart and did some soul searching, but who are we kidding?

I see four years of chaos with Trump (most here will disagree of course), midterms in 26 that swing WAAAAY back over to the democrats, which will mean to them that 24 was just an aberration, so no need to learn any lessons from the whole thing. 

I will never forget that a few months prior to Trump winning in 2016, the narrative was that the GOP was fundamentally done as a party. 8 years later, here we are. The DNC will pull the same kind of Lazarus story. Don't ask me how, nothing makes sense anymore.

[Ray_T 716]

6 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I really hope that the next election provides us with much better candidates.  This era of Trump and Biden as our best options has got to end.

I am with you there Brother!

I live in Canada and we have the same problem here.   I dont actually like any of the options I likely have to vote for, so I'm voting for the option I think will result in the least amount of harm.   but a change of government is Necessary here.    You guys are so lucky you have 2 term limits on the presidency.  We dont and have had the same idiot running our country for now about a decade.     my belief is that when a politician is in power that long, they start to forget who is working for whom.   They feel entitled and do whatever the F they want.   They forget that we the people pay their wages with our taxes and they serve at our leisure.

 

[MDC 6,705]

2 hours ago, Fnord said:

It would be great if the Dems took this one to heart and did some soul searching, but who are we kidding?

I see four years of chaos with Trump (most here will disagree of course), midterms in 26 that swing WAAAAY back over to the democrats, which will mean to them that 24 was just an aberration, so no need to learn any lessons from the whole thing. 

I will never forget that a few months prior to Trump winning in 2016, the narrative was that the GOP was fundamentally done as a party. 8 years later, here we are. The DNC will pull the same kind of Lazarus story. Don't ask me how, nothing makes sense anymore.

That’s the way it always is. When GWB won there was talk of a permanent Republican majority. Then he wrecked the brand so bad that America elected a black guy. 

Trump is almost certainly going to have a real bad second term. Dems should start the process of changing the approach and platform to prepare for 2028 now.

[MLCKAA 506]

6 hours ago, Strike said:

I think I addressed your first paragraph in my last sentence of my post so we agree there.

I don't have a problem with Desantis.  I thought he would have been the better choice early on for this election.  Looks like I was wrong on that one.  Not a huge Haley fan for some reason.     Can't tell you why but she rubs me the wrong way.  Have always like Tulsi but can't really see putting someone up for Prez who just registered for the party and has little track record within the party.  I don't know anything about Ducey but would look in to him if he ran.  Your endorsement of him makes me curious for sure.   Hopefully there will be a primary and we can pick the best option.

At least we can have a rational discussion of who Trump's successor should be.   Who are the Dems gonna offer up?  Mayor Buttplug?  Pass.  Dude would be on maternity leave his entire term.  Can't throw Kamalatoe out there again.  Hitlery?  Who do they even have?  Not to mention that their party is being torn apart between the actual moderates, some of whom likely moved red during this cycle, and the extremists.  It will be interesting to see if the tell their stances change over the next four years as a party.  Because if they keep trotting out these extreme progressive ideas we're going to run the government for the next decade at least.

What a shame Bobby Jindal isn’t a natural born citizen.  That’s a guy who could be president.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,078]

So happy

[thegeneral 2,458]

I’m going to say hell no

[Patented Phil 1,238]

9 hours ago, jerryskids said:

I dunno... in 2016 the leftie pseuds who run the party thought they lost because half of the country is racist misogynist nazis.  Eight years later, I'm confident they think the same thing.  They seem incapable of introspection, unable to understand why everyone doesn't sign up for the party of high inflation, transing kids, boys in girls sports, wide open borders, muslim terrorists, and free stuff instead of meaningful jobs.   

Great post.  Look, there’s a reason the Democrats are incapable of change here.  Their entire Party is built around identity politics, and the only way to keep that system going is to propagate the fantastical grievances that hold their minority coalitions together.  They need to focus on supposed problem (“isms”) because their policies suck, and they don’t address the core issues like the breakdown of black nuclear families.  So they focus on demonizing their opponents with bogus claims.  If you listened to The View today you’d swear it was 1960 in the Deep South.

The Democrats are hopelessly broken and will not change.  We will see the same, toxic focus on identity politics 30 years from now.  Guaranteed.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,116]

 No. The left will never change their old playbook and use their incremental tactics and hatred for those who don’t have their opinions, idea logical reasoning. This has been a long time coming. And I for one am extremely proud of American people who have made their vot and voice heard.

[jerryskids 6,135]

1 hour ago, Patented Phil said:

Great post.  Look, there’s a reason the Democrats are incapable of change here.  Their entire Party is built around identity politics, and the only way to keep that system going is to propagate the fantastical grievances that hold their minority coalitions together.  They need to focus on supposed problem (“isms”) because their policies suck, and they don’t address the core issues like the breakdown of black nuclear families.  So they focus on demonizing their opponents with bogus claims.  If you listened to The View today you’d swear it was 1960 in the Deep South.

The Democrats are hopelessly broken and will not change.  We will see the same, toxic focus on identity politics 30 years from now.  Guaranteed.

Thanks, great post yourself!  I love your description of the identity politics.   

[TimHauck 2,416]

7 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

Off the top of my head for Democrats I'd say in no particular order:

Gavin Newsom

JB Pritzker

Wes Moore

Hakeem Jefferies

Ruben Gallego

Josh Shapiro

Gretchen Whitmer might have to wait but she might be there as a choice.

Pete Buttigeg will probably get a look.

 

Roy Cooper

[jerryskids 6,135]

This is a wonderful read from the (female) founder of Quillette, a zine from Australia.  @The Real timschochet, you might find this interesting because at the end she ties it to a very Ayn Rand-like, think "prime movers". 

Quote

Revenge of the Silent Male Voter

What I learned about Trump’s landslide victory from one night in New York City.

On election day, I caught the subway from Brooklyn to Manhattan. Sitting across from me, an elderly woman wore a T-shirt with the image of Trump pumping his fist in the air with the words “fight, fight.” A small “I Voted” sticker was pressed onto her lapel. 

She sat with an easy confidence. There were no disapproving glances from other passengers. There was no tension. No conflict. It struck me that in 2024 it was now perfectly acceptable to express support for Trump in a deep blue (Democratically held) city. As I travelled to my destination I wondered: If one could support Trump this openly in New York City, what might support look like in the rest of the country?

A few hours later I attended an exclusive, well-heeled party. I spoke to various professionals who said that they had never voted Republican in their lives, but had voted for Trump that day due to his support—in their words—“for the Jews.” These Manhattanites told me that Kamala was too sympathetic to the “pro-Hamas contingent” of the far-Left, and at a time of rising antisemitism, they couldn’t bring themselves to support her. This small group of cosmopolitans represented a contingent far-removed from the stereotypical MAGA voter. And yet listening to their views, it again occurred to me: if I could find such support for Trump in the middle of a Democratic heartland—what might it look like in the rest of the country?

When I arrived at my final stop of the evening—a private underground bar in the Lower East side of the city—a celebratory atmosphere had begun to explode. The betting markets tipped a Trump win, and online supporters of Harris had started to express acceptance of defeat. The beer here had already run dry. It was so bustling that it was hard to move, with young men in their twenties and early thirties outnumbering women by 2:1. These men were diverse: white, black, Hispanic, Asian. A few wore Trump caps, but the aesthetic was more like a university dorm than a MAGA rally. “This is the counter-culture,” one party goer told me. “This isn’t just about Trump,” another said. “It’s about Vance and Musk. It's about American dynamism.”

In the coming days, much will be written about working class concerns—issues that have become familiar focal points for those seeking to understand Trump’s support. But while inflation and border policies will have no doubt played a role in the Republicans’ landslide victory, we might also want to look at the sentiments expressed by young male voters—voters who represent a new and emerging contingent in American politics. Nothing about the young men I spoke to appeared particularly conservative or “right-wing.” Yet it was easy for them to explain why they voted for Trump. And if we zoom out and look at broader cultural trends, it should be easy for us to understand too.

If we take a macro perspective, we see that such young men have never known a culture in which males are not routinely described as “problematic,” “toxic,” or “oppressive.” Going to university, and working at modern companies, they live in a world of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion policies—many of which promote an insidious and pervasive form of anti-male discrimination. Yet to talk about it in public invites social ostracism. To criticise DEI is to risk being called a Nazi. 

These young male voters know about theories of patriarchy and white supremacy, but they have never known a culture which celebrates the Great Man Theory of history. Thomas Carlyle’s nineteenth-century framework for understanding the past is seen as an anachronism, not worthy of serious thought. Today we acknowledge historical figures not for their feats, but for their crimes. Whether it is due to slavery, colonisation, racism, or sexism, we tear down the monuments of our past, while building no new heroes for our future.

The problem with this way of viewing the world is that it is alienating and self-defeating. It is also wrong. By any objective standards, Elon Musk is a great man of history, who is influencing the course of human civilisation for generations to come. As one party-goer told me, “He caught a rocket with mechanical chopsticks.” Yet despite his achievements, Musk is more likely to be scorned than celebrated by the Democratic establishment.

This tension between achievement and resentment explains much about our current moment. The young men I met that night in Manhattan weren’t just voting for Trump’s policies. They were voting for a different view of history and human nature. In their world, individual greatness matters. Male ambition serves a purpose. Risk-taking and defiance create progress.

This is why the Trump victory transcends conventional political analysis. It represents more than a rebuke of border policies or inflation rates. It signals a resurrection of old truths: that civilisation advances through the actions of remarkable individuals, that male traits can build rather than destroy, and that greatness—despite our modern discomfort with the concept—remains a force in human affairs.

The elderly woman on the subway, the Manhattan professionals, and the young men at the underground bar all sensed a shift. They saw in Trump not just a candidate, but a challenge to a psychosocial orthodoxy that has dominated American institutions for a generation. Their votes marked not just a political preference, but a cultural correction.

As the final results came in that night, it became clear that what I witnessed in New York was playing out across the nation. The election wasn’t just a victory for Trump. It was a victory for a way of seeing the world that many thought dead: one where individual achievement matters, where male ambition serves a purpose, and where great men still shape the course of history.

https://quillette.com/2024/11/06/the-revenge-of-the-silent-male-voter-trump-vance-musk/

[seafoam1 2,496]

11 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I really hope that the next election provides us with much better candidates.  This era of Trump and Biden as our best options has got to end.

Trump kicks ass. Best president ever.