Brian Flores suing NFL, NYG for racism - Doomsday

[Hardcore troubadour 16,062]

13 minutes ago, BufordT said:

What if he wants to win?

I just want to stop talking about this bullshit. His team, let him do what he wants. 

[TommyGavin 790]

I agree. This thread has become an abortion. 

[Masshole 642]

On 2/8/2022 at 6:59 AM, peenie said:

I work with 2 black guys and they are on your side. They say being a good player doesn’t mean you’ll make a good coach. They were trying to explain how men become coaches. 

It seems it has to do with certain associations and training and we’re out of that loop. 

A couple of reasons, in my opinion, why the NFL coaching ranks are more heavily white than the % of AA players in the league:

Being a asst HC or HC in the NFL or NCAA college is a terrifically demanding role and 1st yr coaches tend to have difficulty in achieving success.   This leads to a tendency to lean towards experienced candidates and this creates a self-perpetuating smallish group that gets recycled thru these roles.   You can make the case that this group is largely white due to a lot of reasons that include past racism, but I don't think that it is because of continuing racism.   So railing about the "racism" that help create this smallish group doesn't really address how to fix the current situation and the "racism" contribution to the present situation is only part of the reason, not "the reason".  The "Rooney Rule" is a good fit to address that as just getting AA coaches into the rotation for consideration and interviews for HC positions and should improve the results over time.   

There isn't much history of great players becoming great coaches.   70% of the NFL is AA = Most of the great players are AA.    Most of the NFL coaches who have been successful played football but usually only at low level college or NFL levels and then got into coaching.    Football at D2/D3 and lower levels tends to be less % dominated by AAs.    

AA football players tend to be more physically gifted than their white peers.   Just on an average basis the white players are slightly smaller and slower than their AA counterparts.   AA players are able rely on their physical gifts and hard work to overcome competition.  The white players have to combine their physical gifts with game and situational knowledge to "even the playing field" with the more physically gifted AA players that dominate their sport and that they have to compete with.    This organically creates a system that grooms the white players to be more inclined toward coaching the game as they devoted more of their attention and energy to those aspects of play during the times they were playing. 

I'll probably get torched for that last point.   

[TBayXXXVII 2,683]

13 hours ago, TimHauck said:

Except Eric Bieniemy I guess?

....and Bob Sutton....and Jim Johnson.... oh wait, they're white.  They don't count.

[TBayXXXVII 2,683]

13 hours ago, peenie said:

I don't believe he would say such a thing unless there was some truth to it. I don't know much about football, clearly. I just think, as you all have noted, that is a career ending statement. 

I think he's taking a lot of truths and exaggerating them because he's pissed that he lost his job and felt disrespected by being a token interview to satisfy a racist rule.

[TimHauck 3,451]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

....and Bob Sutton....and Jim Johnson.... oh wait, they're white.  They don't count.

I'll be honest I've never heard of Bob Sutton, but looks like he was demoted by the Jets and fired by the Chiefs.

I'll give you Jim Johnson, but dude has been dead for 13 years (RIP).  Is that the most recent example you got?

[Bert 1,129]

I guess Lovie isn't black enough.

Flores is being exposed as nothing more than a cry baby.   Congrats Lovie.........why didn't you hire me!

 

https://abc13.com/houston-texans-lovie-smith-head-coach-fans-question-decision/11547244/

[TBayXXXVII 2,683]

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

I'll be honest I've never heard of Bob Sutton, but looks like he was demoted by the Jets and fired by the Chiefs.

I'll give you Jim Johnson, but dude has been dead for 13 years (RIP).  Is that the most recent example you got?

They are white coordinators who worked for Andy Reid,  who never got HC jobs.  Even if you believe in the "old boy" network... how come they never got a job?  Ron Rivera got a job... or does he not count?  He's a minority, but not "the right kind of minority", so he doesn't fit the NFL is racist mold?  Leslie Frazier and Todd Bowles were coordinators under Andy Reid.  Do they not count as well... because that's not "today"?  There have been 3 minority coaches to become HC's that worked under Reid... 2 black, 1 Hispanic,  but poor Eric Bienemy didn't get a job yet, so the owners are racist, right?

[edjr 7,046]

 

HAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

https://brobible.com/culture/article/emmanuel-acho-brian-flores-black-lawyers/

[vomit 502]

6 minutes ago, edjr said:

 

HAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

https://brobible.com/culture/article/emmanuel-acho-brian-flores-black-lawyers/

Goes along with my theory that these white lawayers hoodwinked flores to bring this lawsuit so they could get paid.  I wouldn't be shocked if Flores drops the lawsuit and admits as such.

[peenie 2,023]

19 hours ago, Masshole said:

A couple of reasons, in my opinion, why the NFL coaching ranks are more heavily white than the % of AA players in the league:

Being a asst HC or HC in the NFL or NCAA college is a terrifically demanding role and 1st yr coaches tend to have difficulty in achieving success.   This leads to a tendency to lean towards experienced candidates and this creates a self-perpetuating smallish group that gets recycled thru these roles.   You can make the case that this group is largely white due to a lot of reasons that include past racism, but I don't think that it is because of continuing racism.   So railing about the "racism" that help create this smallish group doesn't really address how to fix the current situation and the "racism" contribution to the present situation is only part of the reason, not "the reason".  The "Rooney Rule" is a good fit to address that as just getting AA coaches into the rotation for consideration and interviews for HC positions and should improve the results over time.   

There isn't much history of great players becoming great coaches.   70% of the NFL is AA = Most of the great players are AA.    Most of the NFL coaches who have been successful played football but usually only at low level college or NFL levels and then got into coaching.    Football at D2/D3 and lower levels tends to be less % dominated by AAs.    

AA football players tend to be more physically gifted than their white peers.   Just on an average basis the white players are slightly smaller and slower than their AA counterparts.   AA players are able rely on their physical gifts and hard work to overcome competition.  The white players have to combine their physical gifts with game and situational knowledge to "even the playing field" with the more physically gifted AA players that dominate their sport and that they have to compete with.    This organically creates a system that grooms the white players to be more inclined toward coaching the game as they devoted more of their attention and energy to those aspects of play during the times they were playing. 

I'll probably get torched for that last point.   

I really truly appreciate this post and if people would not simply get mad at the person who claims racism and try to respond with reason and sensitivity instead is saying, “Well if blacks would stop killing each other or learn to read…”

Take lesson RLLD and Utilit99.

[TBayXXXVII 2,683]

41 minutes ago, edjr said:

 

HAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

https://brobible.com/culture/article/emmanuel-acho-brian-flores-black-lawyers/

LOL, white lawyers from NY... anyone wanna bet that all those lawyers are liberals?

[RLLD 4,283]

23 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

LOL, white lawyers from NY... anyone wanna bet that all those lawyers are liberals?

 

I cannot believe there were not highly qualified black lawyers readily available.  Did he forget that skin color comes before ability and skills? 

[TBayXXXVII 2,683]

52 minutes ago, peenie said:

I really truly appreciate this post and if people would not simply get mad at the person who claims racism and try to respond with reason and sensitivity instead is saying, “Well if blacks would stop killing each other or learn to read…”

Take lesson RLLD and Utilit99.

To be fair, they're not really wrong.

That said, I'll at more to what @Masshole said.  Black players are also more likely to leave school early to go to the NFL... for obvious reasons.  The white players who don't have the ability to do that, generally get their degrees and end up being graduate assistants for their school.  That's step 1 in becoming a coach... it's a step that virtually no black player takes.  The ones who leave early and don't make it in the NFL, do one of 3 things.  Mostly, try to do what ever they can to stay in shape to get a call and hope to stick somewhere else.  To a lesser extent, try and try and get a job.  To a much lesser extent, and the one NOT encouraged enough by anyone... white, black or otherwise, is go back to school... finish their degree and try to become a coach.  Now, a good chunk may go back to school and get their degree, but it's to go into a field that will take them away from football (I lump them in with the "To a lesser extent" category).

Black folks who try to get into coaching try to do it at the NFL level, not at the ground floor.  They're taking the hardest route to get to the end result.  What they should do is either go to a coach they know at the college level and try to latch on as a position assistant coach.  Coaches talk.  They'd make their way to the NFL or a college HC much faster than trying to jump right back into the NFL.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,587]

just wanna preface by saying I am not saying one race is smarter or not

generally speaking black players get by on gifted physical talent.  White guys have to work harder and study more to get to the highest level.  That leads to when they are washing out of the playing days, more knowledge on how to coach.  Being a good player doesn't make you a good coach.  Being an average player who has to use everything possible to try to be competitive makes you a potential good coach

there is a reason why you hear things like Wes Welker is always the first person here and the last person to leave, or is a scrapper or gives 110% and leaves everything on the field

meanwhile you get a guy like Calvin Johnson who was awesome but never had to work half as hard as Welker to be a great WR

[vomit 502]

2 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

just wanna preface by saying I am not saying one race is smarter or not

generally speaking black players get by on gifted physical talent.  White guys have to work harder and study more to get to the highest level.  That leads to when they are washing out of the playing days, more knowledge on how to coach.  Being a good player doesn't make you a good coach.  Being an average player who has to use everything possible to try to be competitive makes you a potential good coach

there is a reason why you hear things like Wes Welker is always the first person here and the last person to leave, or is a scrapper or gives 110% and leaves everything on the field

meanwhile you get a guy like Calvin Johnson who was awesome but never had to work half as hard as Welker to be a great WR

Masshole just said the same thing a few posts earlier.

I'm not laughing at your post, it has merit, just laughing that you stole his idea

[Hardcore troubadour 16,062]

1 hour ago, edjr said:

 

HAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

https://brobible.com/culture/article/emmanuel-acho-brian-flores-black-lawyers/

Are they white or Jewish? As we found out thanks to Whoopi, Jew is a race. 

[vomit 502]

Also Emmanual Acho is a clown.  I used to follow him and respect him but he's gone down a hole now that he's gotten famous.

I wanted to listen to the clip about the white lawyers, then listened to other clips.  He said that the league is racist because they don't have enough black HCs, then when asked if Flores will coach again he says "Yes, because they league will hire anyone that is talented"

Focking clown

[Alias Detective 1,475]

9 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I think he's taking a lot of truths and exaggerating them because he's pissed that he lost his job and felt disrespected by being a token interview to satisfy a racist rule.

The black community has this thing they call “their truth”.  The rest of the population calls it bullshit.

 

aka a Smollette

[peenie 2,023]

Saying that a black player doesn't have to work as hard and relies on their natural talent is really not fair. I know what you were trying to say, but you don't have to put down one person in order to uplift the other. I really doubt people come out of the womb knowing how to play football. They had to have put the work in to get where they are, but I do understand your point. It's why the homely guy has the great personality or becomes the billionaire.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

It's harder for star players to be coaches because they are much more likely to be impatient with losing.  They are more likely to quit a losing team and try to join a winning team.   Efficiency whores.  everything has got to be on, everything must be perfect or they "throw the video game controller into a wall and scream".  Can't be that way as a coach.  Most of the great coaches were bench guys or backups. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,587]

2 hours ago, vomit said:

Masshole just said the same thing a few posts earlier.

I'm not laughing at your post, it has merit, just laughing that you stole his idea

Oh I didn’t read his just came in an posted my thoughts 

[shorepatrol 1,871]

2 hours ago, peenie said:

 It's why the homely guy has the great personality or becomes the billionaire.

You are truly lost. WTF does that have to do with anything relating to blacks are geneticly superior athletically ? 

[peenie 2,023]

11 hours ago, shorepatrol said:

You are truly lost. WTF does that have to do with anything relating to blacks are geneticly superior athletically ? 

I’m not the one who made the original statement. First of all, I don’t believe blacks are genetically physically superior any more than I believe Asians are genetically intellectually superior. I wrote that despite what you may think blacks have to put in the effort. Blacks don’t come out of the womb knowing how to play a sport. Read my post again and please read the comment I was responding to and direct your response to that person, not me. 

Lastly, the homely person that doesn’t get attention because of their looks finds alternative ways to draw others to them such as having a great personality or being funny or due to not having a distracting social life they can spend more time on other endeavors like growing a business. That’s why the stereotype of the dumb beautiful blonde exists. She doesn’t have to be smart in order to attract men.

[TBayXXXVII 2,683]

11 hours ago, shorepatrol said:

You are truly lost. WTF does that have to do with anything relating to blacks are geneticly superior athletically ? 

I don't think she's lost on that... I totally agree with her on that point.  It's true.

[NEWPOSTERGUY! 288]

16 hours ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

just wanna preface by saying I am not saying one race is smarter or not

generally speaking black players get by on gifted physical talent.  White guys have to work harder and study more to get to the highest level.  That leads to when they are washing out of the playing days, more knowledge on how to coach.  Being a good player doesn't make you a good coach.  Being an average player who has to use everything possible to try to be competitive makes you a potential good coach

there is a reason why you hear things like Wes Welker is always the first person here and the last person to leave, or is a scrapper or gives 110% and leaves everything on the field

meanwhile you get a guy like Calvin Johnson who was awesome but never had to work half as hard as Welker to be a great WR

I'll take this a step further.

there have been white coaches who never played a down of football on any level ... these are the schlubby/nerdy/dorky kids who still wanna be close to the sport, so they gravitate towards clipboard holding or equipment manager, etc, just to get a foot in. 

then they work their way up the coaching ladder, simply by putting in 16 hr days, and doing whatever it takes. 

conversely, most black kids who dig sports wind up actually playing them ... and there is much more "machismo" in those neighborhoods than there is in Biff's sheltered suburbia. 

young bruthas ain't gonna carry someone elses jock, or wash their cleats ... eff that, if they can't play, then they OUT. 

now, this is not necessarily a hard/fast rule in EVERY circumstance, but it does play out this way MUCH more often than not. 

ergo, dweebs find their way to HC positions in time. 

 

[vomit 502]

I was thinking about this, how can you incentivize owners hiring blacks.  What about draft picks?  Hire a black HC, get a 3rd round pick.  If he gets fired after a year, you lose that 3rd.  2 years, lose a 4th, 3 years you're good.  This way ownership might take a chance on a black even if they feel he's less qualified.  And of course any racist will still be like "I don't care if you give me 7 1s, I'm not hiring a n*****" 

[RLLD 4,283]

37 minutes ago, vomit said:

I was thinking about this, how can you incentivize owners hiring blacks.  What about draft picks?  Hire a black HC, get a 3rd round pick.  If he gets fired after a year, you lose that 3rd.  2 years, lose a 4th, 3 years you're good.  This way ownership might take a chance on a black even if they feel he's less qualified.  And of course any racist will still be like "I don't care if you give me 7 1s, I'm not hiring a n*****" 

I wonder, should they not also be incentivized to draft Asians? What about native americans?  Why do these teams constantly give preference to African Americans in their drafting over all other races, I mean, I do not see American represented in their staffing, where is the diversity- that thing that makes everything so much better?

[vomit 502]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

I wonder, should they not also be incentivized to draft Asians? What about native americans?  Why do these teams constantly give preference to African Americans in their drafting over all other races, I mean, I do not see American represented in their staffing, where is the diversity- that thing that makes everything so much better?

When asians or native americans sue the league, then we'll talk.  But these minority groups dont have a voice in the NFL like the blacks do.  You dont see any blacks suing the NHL.

[RLLD 4,283]

12 minutes ago, vomit said:

When asians or native americans sue the league, then we'll talk.  But these minority groups dont have a voice in the NFL like the blacks do.  You dont see any blacks suing the NHL.

No, that is not what is being asserted here, what is being asserted is that there needs to be diversity, well then lets get the ball rolling....

If the only thing that matters is the color of ones skin, then we need the NFL to be majority white...oh wait, merit is OK when it is only to the benefit of a minority?

[vomit 502]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

No, that is not what is being asserted here, what is being asserted is that there needs to be diversity, well then lets get the ball rolling....

If the only thing that matters is the color of ones skin, then we need the NFL to be majority white...oh wait, merit is OK when it is only to the benefit of a minority?

diversity does not mean "the only thing that matters is the color of ones skin"

[Baker Boy 1,711]

25 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I wonder, should they not also be incentivized to draft Asians? What about native americans?  Why do these teams constantly give preference to African Americans in their drafting over all other races, I mean, I do not see American represented in their staffing, where is the diversity- that thing that makes everything so much better?

NFL approves plan to reward teams with draft picks for developing minority coaches, GMs

The gist of the resolution:

• A team that loses a minority assistant coach who becomes a head coach or loses a personnel executive who becomes a general manager will receive third-round compensatory picks in each of the next two drafts.

• A team that loses two minority staffers to head coach and general manager positions would receive three third-round picks.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2020/11/10/nfl-minority-coach-general-manager-hiring-proposal-approved/6234064002/#:~:text=NFL owners adopted a resolution on Tuesday that,a lagging record of diversity by its teams.

[TBayXXXVII 2,683]

1 hour ago, vomit said:

I was thinking about this, how can you incentivize owners hiring blacks.  What about draft picks?  Hire a black HC, get a 3rd round pick.  If he gets fired after a year, you lose that 3rd.  2 years, lose a 4th, 3 years you're good.  This way ownership might take a chance on a black even if they feel he's less qualified.  And of course any racist will still be like "I don't care if you give me 7 1s, I'm not hiring a n*****" 

So what you're saying is that the way to stop perceived racism, is through clear racism?

Besides, the NFL already has a plan that doesn't work... just like yours wouldn't.  Here's what the NFL already has in place.  See @Baker Boy's post above.  He got it in while I was typing it.  It won't work because teams won't want to help their competitors get extra picks.

Now, you want to incentivize teams to go out and hire black coaches and give them extra picks even if it means... not hiring the best candidate... and more losing?  So, let's say 3 owners go out and hire Bienemy, Leftwich, and Bowles and they all get fired in 3 years because their teams have 3 consecutive losing seasons.  Why would teams be willing to take that chance again?  Teams want to win.  As I said earilier... every year these owners give $5B a year to black players.  Why on earth would they care that a coach makes $XX M?

[peenie 2,023]

I think some individuals are genetically superior and some intellectually superior not that it runs in any race. Al Roker and Michael Jordan have nothing in common outside of their color. Kobe Bryant practiced his way into greatness, it wasn’t natural. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,683]

1 minute ago, peenie said:

I think some individuals are genetically superior and some intellectually superior not that it runs in any race. Al Roker and Michael Jordan have nothing in common outside of their color. Kobe Bryant practiced his way into greatness, it wasn’t natural. 

I agreed with you until the last sentence.  Kobe was 18 years old and in the NBA.  Any 18 year old who can compete and be better than 25+ year olds... didn't practice their way into greatness.  It is natural.

[peenie 2,023]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I agreed with you until the last sentence.  Kobe was 18 years old and in the NBA.  Any 18 year old who can compete and be better than 25+ year olds... didn't practice their way into greatness.  It is natural.

Being physically big and strong or tall isn’t enough!!

[TBayXXXVII 2,683]

Just now, peenie said:

 

I didn't say he didn't practice his craft and try to be even better, but you can't say that's what got him there.  He was 18 and in the NBA.  That's natural... plain and simple.

[RLLD 4,283]

19 minutes ago, vomit said:

diversity does not mean "the only thing that matters is the color of ones skin"

Wait, you mean that Brian Flores may not have been hired because there was a better candidate? Is that possible?

[RLLD 4,283]

7 minutes ago, peenie said:

I think some individuals are genetically superior and some intellectually superior not that it runs in any race. Al Roker and Michael Jordan have nothing in common outside of their color. Kobe Bryant practiced his way into greatness, it wasn’t natural. 

Might you be willing to concede that that the most prominent differences are cultural?

[peenie 2,023]

Just now, TBayXXXVII said:

I didn't say he didn't practice his craft and try to be even better, but you can't say that's what got him there.  He was 18 and in the NBA.  That's natural... plain and simple.

No, it’s not natural. In my lifetime I’ve maybe made 3 baskets. I can’t play basketball. My sister is a basketball coach! We are genetically similar. I have the body of a track star. I’m sure given the training I could’ve been a fantastic athlete, but I’m too lazy.