Trans Kids

[MDC 7,878]

3 minutes ago, Beaker15 said:

Gay men and lesbians are 100% mentally ill.  I have nothing against them but they need help as well.

I was told Republicans have no problem with the gays.  

[squistion 2,522]

6 minutes ago, Beaker15 said:

Gay men and lesbians are 100% mentally ill.  I have nothing against them but they need help as well.

I told you all there are people here who still may believe that (even though it is discredited by a majority of psychiatrists, psychologists and mental health experts). Didn't expect any to come out of the woodwork this soon. 

[The Real timschochet 7,434]

15 minutes ago, Beaker15 said:

Gay men and lesbians are 100% mentally ill.  I have nothing against them but they need help as well.

I’m sure that all of the reasonable conservatives in here reading this post will show up any moment now to condemn it. 

[Beaker15 249]

43 minutes ago, MDC said:

I was told Republicans have no problem with the gays.  

I am a Republican and I don't have a problem with the gays.  Not sure your point.

[Strike 6,013]

1 hour ago, squistion said:

I am old to enough to remember when people said that about gay men and lesbians, although that is distinct minority viewpoint today (but some here may still believe that). 

Is that before or after you found out they had rights? 

[League Champion 1,926]

Instead of Rainbow floats and parades they should impose a gay and lesbian task force to round them all up and ship them to all gay rainbow covered Islands. 

They may like that but I'm joking, of course. 

[Beaker15 249]

44 minutes ago, squistion said:

I told you all there are people here who still may believe that (even though it is discredited by a majority of psychiatrists, psychologists and mental health experts). Didn't expect any to come out of the woodwork this soon. 

Look, you have to have some screws loose to be gay, it is just not natural.  I know some gay people who are great people so I have nothing against them.

[Engorgeous George 2,332]

I am unable to partake in the certitude expressed by either end of the spectrum on this matter, hell on most matters.

[TBayXXXVII 2,668]

17 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

And here’s an actual study on the issue of whether or not transgenders regret the operation: 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/

The number of regrets is less than 1%. But hey don’t listen to statistics. There’s a gay woman we found that is testifying that they’re tricked into it! 

Quote

Conclusions:
Based on this review, there is an extremely low prevalence of regret in transgender patients after GAS. We believe this study corroborates the improvements made in regard to selection criteria for GAS. However, there is high subjectivity in the assessment of regret and lack of standardized questionnaires, which highlight the importance of developing validated questionnaires in this population.

Want to elaborate on what that means?

[TBayXXXVII 2,668]

14 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Agreed. And if they figure out during puberty or before  that they were born the wrong sex, leave them alone to do fix it with their doctor. 

So if I know a 12 year old who qualifies as a marksman in a gun club and a psychiatrist says this 12 year old shows to have the maturity level of 30 year old, that 12 year old should be allowed to exercise his constitutional right to get a gun permit and buy a gun?

[Strike 6,013]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

So if I know a 12 year old who qualifies as a marksman in a gun club and a psychiatrist says this 12 year old shows to have the maturity level of 30 year old, that 12 year old should be allowed to exercise his constitutional right to get a gun permit and buy a gun?

Not just any gun. An "Assault Rifle." 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,542]

4 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

So if I know a 12 year old who qualifies as a marksman in a gun club and a psychiatrist says this 12 year old shows to have the maturity level of 30 year old, that 12 year old should be allowed to exercise his constitutional right to get a gun permit and buy a gun?

Most kids grew up generations ago knowing how to handle firearms. Now they aren’t allowed to and we have the problems we have now. I read something during the revolutionary war if you were 13 you were handed a gun and went to war

bet none of those kids had time to pretend to be girls 

[Strike 6,013]

Just now, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Most kids grew up generations ago knowing how to handle firearms. Now they aren’t allowed to and we have the problems we have now 

This is a good point, and applies to so many things.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,668]

1 minute ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Most kids grew up generations ago knowing how to handle firearms. Now they aren’t allowed to and we have the problems we have now. I read something during the revolutionary war if you were 13 you were handed a gun and went to war

Shush, facts aren't welcome here... only liberal feelings.

[jerryskids 7,075]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

The reason I use absolutes is because the statistics are so overwhelming that it would be irrelevant not to. It’s very much like voter fraud: last I checked the percentage of actual vote fraud in this country was something like 0.0001%. That’s not zero but it’s low enough for me to state with absolute assurance that it doesn’t happen: 

Im not going to ask my daughters how many kids they know are trans because that would be an anecdote and as useless as all anecdotes are. Somewhere there are probably actual numbers about this from a statistical study that we can all rely on. 

To summarize, you don't know the statistics and won't ask your daughters because it would be anecdotal, but you are sure that the statistics are so overwhelming as to justify absolutes?

[The Real timschochet 7,434]

18 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

So if I know a 12 year old who qualifies as a marksman in a gun club and a psychiatrist says this 12 year old shows to have the maturity level of 30 year old, that 12 year old should be allowed to exercise his constitutional right to get a gun permit and buy a gun?

Personally? My answer is absolutely. Yes. 

[League Champion 1,926]

44 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

So if I know a 12 year old who qualifies as a marksman in a gun club and a psychiatrist says this 12 year old shows to have the maturity level of 30 year old, that 12 year old should be allowed to exercise his constitutional right to get a gun permit and buy a gun?

Absolutely. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,668]

27 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Personally? My answer is absolutely. Yes. 

 

1 minute ago, League Champion said:

Absolutely. 

Odds that you'll ever find any doctor's willing to even entertain the idea of testing a 12 year old for their maturity level for them to be allowed to buy a gun?

[League Champion 1,926]

Just now, TBayXXXVII said:

 

Odds that you'll ever find any doctor's willing to even entertain the idea of testing a 12 year old for their maturity level for them to be allowed to buy a gun?

My Daughter is 10 years old, she can shoot the arse off of a gnat at 200 yards. She can also field strip & clean any gun that you throw in front of her. 

I'd trust her over a 

[Engorgeous George 2,332]

Tim seems to have great faith in, and puts great stock in those credentialed by our universities and licensed by our states.  Myself, I have attended those universities, have been licensed by several states, and work in government.  I put far less stock in the opinions of the credentialed because my experience with them is they are often in search of validation of their own emotional challenges and shortcomings.  When they see their shortcomings in others they support and justify them as a way of supporting and justifying themselves.  They are humans with flaws and foibles they often are not self-aware enough to understand. Tim may argue "well'' "how else are we to proceed?"  I would suggest with his compassion and with the caution and skepticsm of those he so often rejects.  Each side has a point.  Neither are exclusively right.  Both could benefit by listening to and appreciating the other.  Neither is likely to do so when absolutes are slung around intermixed with condescension and insults.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,339]

4 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Tim seems to have great faith in, and puts great stock in those credentialed by our universities and licensed by our states.  Myself, I have attended those universities, have been licensed by several states, and work in government.  I put far less stock in the opinions of the credentialed because my experience with them is they are often in search of validation of their own emotional challenges and shortcomings.  When they see their shortcomings in others they support and justify them as a way of supporting and justifying themselves.  They are humans with flaws and foibles they often are not self-aware enough to understand. tim may argue "we'' how else are we to proceed?"  I would suggest with his compassion and with the caution and skepticsm of those he so often rejects.  Eachside has a point.  Neither are exclusively right.  Both could benefit by listening to and appreciating the other.  Neither is likely to do so when absolutes are slung around intermixed with condescension and insults.

Tim is the first one to reject science in the trans thread(s), but in the climate change thread he's the same guy screaming, "BELIEVE THE SCIENCE!!".

[jerryskids 7,075]

10 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Tim seems to have great faith in, and puts great stock in those credentialed by our universities and licensed by our states.  Myself, I have attended those universities, have been licensed by several states, and work in government.  I put far less stock in the opinions of the credentialed because my experience with them is they are often in search of validation of their own emotional challenges and shortcomings.  When they see their shortcomings in others they support and justify them as a way of supporting and justifying themselves.  They are humans with flaws and foibles they often are not self-aware enough to understand. tim may argue "we'' how else are we to proceed?"  I would suggest with his compassion and with the caution and skepticsm of those he so often rejects.  Eachside has a point.  Neither are exclusively right.  Both could benefit by listening to and appreciating the other.  Neither is likely to do so when absolutes are slung around intermixed with condescension and insults.

Great post.  I don't know if you posted at FBGs, but I occasionally lurked over the years, and actively posted the summer of 2021, and I would say from my brief exposure that this is a great model of him.  His confidence in the MSM is IMO one of the biggest examples of this blind trust.

It reminds me of when I had just gotten out of college and I visited a friend who was going to med school.  At some point in the trip I had the epiphany that, wait a minute, I just spent 4 years in college with this guy and I know I'm smarter than him, yet he is going to be a doctor?  I thought doctors were these omniscient beings... apparently not!  From that point on I never just accepted what a doctor said as infallible gospel.

[jonmx 2,462]

I Thought I Was Saving Trans Kids. Now I’m Blowing the Whistle.

There are more than 100 pediatric gender clinics across the U.S. I worked at one. What’s happening to children is morally and medically appalling.

By Jamie Reed

February 9, 2023

I am a 42-year-old St. Louis native, a queer woman, and politically to the left of Bernie Sanders. My worldview has deeply shaped my career. I have spent my professional life providing counseling to vulnerable populations: children in foster care, sexual minorities, the poor. 

For almost four years, I worked at The Washington University School of Medicine Division of Infectious Diseases with teens and young adults who were HIV positive. Many of them were trans or otherwise gender nonconforming, and I could relate: Through childhood and adolescence, I did a lot of gender questioning myself. I’m now married to a transman, and together we are raising my two biological children from a previous marriage and three foster children we hope to adopt. 

All that led me to a job in 2018 as a case manager at The Washington University Transgender Center at St. Louis Children's Hospital, which had been established a year earlier. 

The center’s working assumption was that the earlier you treat kids with gender dysphoria, the more anguish you can prevent later on. This premise was shared by the center’s doctors and therapists. Given their expertise, I assumed that abundant evidence backed this consensus. 

During the four years I worked at the clinic as a case manager—I was responsible for patient intake and oversight—around a thousand distressed young people came through our doors. The majority of them received hormone prescriptions that can have life-altering consequences—including sterility. 

I left the clinic in November of last year because I could no longer participate in what was happening there. By the time I departed, I was certain that the way the American medical system is treating these patients is the opposite of the promise we make to “do no harm.” Instead, we are permanently harming the vulnerable patients in our care.

Today I am speaking out. I am doing so knowing how toxic the public conversation is around this highly contentious issue—and the ways that my testimony might be misused. I am doing so knowing that I am putting myself at serious personal and professional risk.

Almost everyone in my life advised me to keep my head down. But I cannot in good conscience do so. Because what is happening to scores of children is far more important than my comfort. And what is happening to them is morally and medically appalling.

The Floodgates Open

Soon after my arrival at the Transgender Center, I was struck by the lack of formal protocols for treatment. The center’s physician co-directors were essentially the sole authority.

At first, the patient population was tipped toward what used to be the “traditional” instance of a child with gender dysphoria: a boy, often quite young, who wanted to present as—who wanted to be—a girl. 

Until 2015 or so, a very small number of these boys comprised the population of pediatric gender dysphoria cases. Then, across the Western world, there began to be a dramatic increase in a new population: Teenage girls, many with no previous history of gender distress, suddenly declared they were transgender and demanded immediate treatment with testosterone. 

I certainly saw this at the center. One of my jobs was to do intake for new patients and their families. When I started there were probably 10 such calls a month. When I left there were 50, and about 70 percent of the new patients were girls. Sometimes clusters of girls arrived from the same high school. 

This concerned me, but didn’t feel I was in the position to sound some kind of alarm back then. There was a team of about eight of us, and only one other person brought up the kinds of questions I had. Anyone who raised doubts ran the risk of being called a transphobe. 

The girls who came to us had many comorbidities: depression, anxiety, ADHD, eating disorders, obesity. Many were diagnosed with autism, or had autism-like symptoms. A report last year on a British pediatric transgender center found that about one-third of the patients referred there were on the autism spectrum.

Frequently, our patients declared they had disorders that no one believed they had. We had patients who said they had Tourette syndrome (but they didn’t); that they had tic disorders (but they didn’t); that they had multiple personalities (but they didn’t). 

The doctors privately recognized these false self-diagnoses as a manifestation of social contagion. They even acknowledged that suicide has an element of social contagion. But when I said the clusters of girls streaming into our service looked as if their gender issues might be a manifestation of social contagion, the doctors said gender identity reflected something innate.

To begin transitioning, the girls needed a letter of support from a therapist—usually one we recommended—who they had to see only once or twice for the green light. To make it more efficient for the therapists, we offered them a template for how to write a letter in support of transition. The next stop was a single visit to the endocrinologist for a testosterone prescription. 

That’s all it took. 

When a female takes testosterone, the profound and permanent effects of the hormone can be seen in a matter of months. Voices drop, beards sprout, body fat is redistributed. Sexual interest explodes, aggression increases, and mood can be unpredictable. Our patients were told about some side effects, including sterility. But after working at the center, I came to believe that teenagers are simply not capable of fully grasping what it means to make the decision to become infertile while still a minor. 

Side Effects

Many encounters with patients emphasized to me how little these young people understood the profound impacts changing gender would have on their bodies and minds. But the center downplayed the negative consequences, and emphasized the need for transition. As the center’s website said, “Left untreated, gender dysphoria has any number of consequences, from self-harm to suicide. But when you take away the gender dysphoria by allowing a child to be who he or she is, we’re noticing that goes away. The studies we have show these kids often wind up functioning psychosocially as well as or better than their peers.” 

There are no reliable studies showing this. Indeed, the experiences of many of the center’s patients prove how false these assertions are. 

Here’s an example. On Friday, May 1, 2020, a colleague emailed me about a 15-year-old male patient: “Oh dear. I am concerned that [the patient] does not understand what Bicalutamide does.” I responded: “I don’t think that we start anything honestly right now.”

[TBayXXXVII 2,668]

1 hour ago, League Champion said:

My Daughter is 10 years old, she can shoot the arse off of a gnat at 200 yards. She can also field strip & clean any gun that you throw in front of her. 

I'd trust her over a 

The kid, sure, but I don't think you'll find any doctor, psychiatrist, therapist, etc, that'll ever evaluate her and say she's mature enough to own a gun.  Which ultimately my point.  Ever notice how science "alters" to fit liberal positions, but not conservative ones?

[Strike 6,013]

1 minute ago, jonmx said:

I Thought I Was Saving Trans Kids. Now I’m Blowing the Whistle.

There are more than 100 pediatric gender clinics across the U.S. I worked at one. What’s happening to children is morally and medically appalling.

By Jamie Reed

February 9, 2023

I am a 42-year-old St. Louis native, a queer woman, and politically to the left of Bernie Sanders. My worldview has deeply shaped my career. I have spent my professional life providing counseling to vulnerable populations: children in foster care, sexual minorities, the poor. 

For almost four years, I worked at The Washington University School of Medicine Division of Infectious Diseases with teens and young adults who were HIV positive. Many of them were trans or otherwise gender nonconforming, and I could relate: Through childhood and adolescence, I did a lot of gender questioning myself. I’m now married to a transman, and together we are raising my two biological children from a previous marriage and three foster children we hope to adopt. 

All that led me to a job in 2018 as a case manager at The Washington University Transgender Center at St. Louis Children's Hospital, which had been established a year earlier. 

The center’s working assumption was that the earlier you treat kids with gender dysphoria, the more anguish you can prevent later on. This premise was shared by the center’s doctors and therapists. Given their expertise, I assumed that abundant evidence backed this consensus. 

During the four years I worked at the clinic as a case manager—I was responsible for patient intake and oversight—around a thousand distressed young people came through our doors. The majority of them received hormone prescriptions that can have life-altering consequences—including sterility. 

I left the clinic in November of last year because I could no longer participate in what was happening there. By the time I departed, I was certain that the way the American medical system is treating these patients is the opposite of the promise we make to “do no harm.” Instead, we are permanently harming the vulnerable patients in our care.

Today I am speaking out. I am doing so knowing how toxic the public conversation is around this highly contentious issue—and the ways that my testimony might be misused. I am doing so knowing that I am putting myself at serious personal and professional risk.

Almost everyone in my life advised me to keep my head down. But I cannot in good conscience do so. Because what is happening to scores of children is far more important than my comfort. And what is happening to them is morally and medically appalling.

The Floodgates Open

Soon after my arrival at the Transgender Center, I was struck by the lack of formal protocols for treatment. The center’s physician co-directors were essentially the sole authority.

At first, the patient population was tipped toward what used to be the “traditional” instance of a child with gender dysphoria: a boy, often quite young, who wanted to present as—who wanted to be—a girl. 

Until 2015 or so, a very small number of these boys comprised the population of pediatric gender dysphoria cases. Then, across the Western world, there began to be a dramatic increase in a new population: Teenage girls, many with no previous history of gender distress, suddenly declared they were transgender and demanded immediate treatment with testosterone. 

I certainly saw this at the center. One of my jobs was to do intake for new patients and their families. When I started there were probably 10 such calls a month. When I left there were 50, and about 70 percent of the new patients were girls. Sometimes clusters of girls arrived from the same high school. 

This concerned me, but didn’t feel I was in the position to sound some kind of alarm back then. There was a team of about eight of us, and only one other person brought up the kinds of questions I had. Anyone who raised doubts ran the risk of being called a transphobe. 

The girls who came to us had many comorbidities: depression, anxiety, ADHD, eating disorders, obesity. Many were diagnosed with autism, or had autism-like symptoms. A report last year on a British pediatric transgender center found that about one-third of the patients referred there were on the autism spectrum.

Frequently, our patients declared they had disorders that no one believed they had. We had patients who said they had Tourette syndrome (but they didn’t); that they had tic disorders (but they didn’t); that they had multiple personalities (but they didn’t). 

The doctors privately recognized these false self-diagnoses as a manifestation of social contagion. They even acknowledged that suicide has an element of social contagion. But when I said the clusters of girls streaming into our service looked as if their gender issues might be a manifestation of social contagion, the doctors said gender identity reflected something innate.

To begin transitioning, the girls needed a letter of support from a therapist—usually one we recommended—who they had to see only once or twice for the green light. To make it more efficient for the therapists, we offered them a template for how to write a letter in support of transition. The next stop was a single visit to the endocrinologist for a testosterone prescription. 

That’s all it took. 

When a female takes testosterone, the profound and permanent effects of the hormone can be seen in a matter of months. Voices drop, beards sprout, body fat is redistributed. Sexual interest explodes, aggression increases, and mood can be unpredictable. Our patients were told about some side effects, including sterility. But after working at the center, I came to believe that teenagers are simply not capable of fully grasping what it means to make the decision to become infertile while still a minor. 

Side Effects

Many encounters with patients emphasized to me how little these young people understood the profound impacts changing gender would have on their bodies and minds. But the center downplayed the negative consequences, and emphasized the need for transition. As the center’s website said, “Left untreated, gender dysphoria has any number of consequences, from self-harm to suicide. But when you take away the gender dysphoria by allowing a child to be who he or she is, we’re noticing that goes away. The studies we have show these kids often wind up functioning psychosocially as well as or better than their peers.” 

There are no reliable studies showing this. Indeed, the experiences of many of the center’s patients prove how false these assertions are. 

Here’s an example. On Friday, May 1, 2020, a colleague emailed me about a 15-year-old male patient: “Oh dear. I am concerned that [the patient] does not understand what Bicalutamide does.” I responded: “I don’t think that we start anything honestly right now.”

Woo Hoo!!!  Third time this has been posted!!!!  

[League Champion 1,926]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

The kid, sure, but I don't think you'll find any doctor, psychiatrist, therapist, etc, that'll ever evaluate her and say she's mature enough to own a gun.  

Her firearms instructor might disagree. 

[The Real timschochet 7,434]

42 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Tim seems to have great faith in, and puts great stock in those credentialed by our universities and licensed by our states.  Myself, I have attended those universities, have been licensed by several states, and work in government.  I put far less stock in the opinions of the credentialed because my experience with them is they are often in search of validation of their own emotional challenges and shortcomings.  When they see their shortcomings in others they support and justify them as a way of supporting and justifying themselves.  They are humans with flaws and foibles they often are not self-aware enough to understand. Tim may argue "well'' "how else are we to proceed?"  I would suggest with his compassion and with the caution and skepticsm of those he so often rejects.  Each side has a point.  Neither are exclusively right.  Both could benefit by listening to and appreciating the other.  Neither is likely to do so when absolutes are slung around intermixed with condescension and insults.

Excellent post. And you’re right; I would ask how else are we to proceed? It’s a valid question. And it doesn’t have anything to do with my compassion.

I asked the same question during the Covid crisis. There was a lot of doubt about Fauci and the other public health experts. But if we don’t trust our public health experts, what then? There is no what then; the alternative becomes do nothing, which was unacceptable. 
 

I take umbrage at the suggestion that my views are absolutist. If they sound that way it’s because, IMO, those that disagree with me have offered no evidence or argument that is compelling. If you want to claim that these procedures are harmful to children, come up with a credible group of experts who will say that. If you want to argue that many of these kids have regrets after the procedure, show some statistics that back up the claim. But don’t give me random anecdotes, compare them to the statistics I’ve offered, and then criticize me for being absolutist in my opinions. That doesn’t wash. 

[squistion 2,522]

14 minutes ago, jonmx said:

I Thought I Was Saving Trans Kids. Now I’m Blowing the Whistle.

There are more than 100 pediatric gender clinics across the U.S. I worked at one. What’s happening to children is morally and medically appalling.

By Jamie Reed

 

[The Real timschochet 7,434]

7 minutes ago, jonmx said:

As the center’s website said, “Left untreated, gender dysphoria has any number of consequences, from self-harm to suicide. But when you take away the gender dysphoria by allowing a child to be who he or she is, we’re noticing that goes away. The studies we have show these kids often wind up functioning psychosocially as well as or better than their peers.” 

There are no reliable studies showing this. Indeed, the experiences of many of the center’s patients prove how false these assertions are. 

 

Note that she says there are no “reliable” studies. Translation: there are no studies that I agree with. 
 

Can I vouch for certain this woman is full of crap? Obviously not. But there are lot of reasons to suspect that she is. She claims to be queer, married to a transgender man, to the left of Bernie Sanders. Yet she seems to be advocating for a shutdown of these clinics and her article has exploded on conservative websites everywhere in the last day or so. 

[The Real timschochet 7,434]

Just now, squistion said:

 

And there you go. I figured this woman was full of crapola and it turns out that she is. Go figure. 

[BuckSwope 654]

23 minutes ago, Strike said:

Woo Hoo!!!  Third time this has been posted!!!!  

It's a really really really good read! 

[Strike 6,013]

1 minute ago, BuckSwope said:

It's a really really really good read! 

I do agree with that.  And if Tim And Squid keep reading it maybe eventually it will penetrate their rock hard noggins.

[Engorgeous George 2,332]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Excellent post. And you’re right; I would ask how else are we to proceed? It’s a valid question. And it doesn’t have anything to do with my compassion.

I asked the same question during the Covid crisis. There was a lot of doubt about Fauci and the other public health experts. But if we don’t trust our public health experts, what then? There is no what then; the alternative becomes do nothing, which was unacceptable. 
 

I take umbrage at the suggestion that my views are absolutist. If they sound that way it’s because, IMO, those that disagree with me have offered no evidence or argument that is compelling. If you want to claim that these procedures are harmful to children, come up with a credible group of experts who will say that. If you want to argue that many of these kids have regrets after the procedure, show some statistics that back up the claim. But don’t give me random anecdotes, compare them to the statistics I’ve offered, and then criticize me for being absolutist in my opinions. That doesn’t wash. 

I don't know that I have done the above.  Of course you may be addressing the general discussion here and not me in particular.  Were I to express an opinion on this matter i would probably take the position that the recent uptick in this phenomenon is such that it is too early to know with any certainty one way or another what the long term and even medium term  ramifications are.  You point out anecdotes are matters from which we ought not draw concliusions.  i might suggest that we are far from statistically significant longitudinal studies.  In effect the studies you rely on can themselves be considered anecdotal back to a time of greater caution and vetting of candidates for reassignment.  We may be in a whole new era.

 

In the end what do I know, other than there are some in great turmoil.  How that turmoil and pain is defined whether mental health problems or anomolous occurances  yet within regular parts of the norm, if a few standard deviations from the mean and simply subject to exacerbation due to ignorance and prejudice I cannot say with any degree of certainty.  I do know that some people are cruel seemingly for cruelty sake or to make themselves feel better by comparison (a base level of cognition, at best).  I do know some have their own agendas, emotional and financial for being supportive of almost any belief or behavior.  I do know that agendas make truth difficult to see.  I do know I don't have the truth.

 

Was it John Prine who wrote broken hearts and dirty windows, make life difficult to see, that's why last might and this morning, both look the same to me.

 

My granny and possibly yours too use to say you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Putting aside the fact that you catch more using dung as bait maybe there is some truth in what our grannies said.  Maybe you would be more persuasive if a bit less adament.  Maybe not.

[BuckSwope 654]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

And there you go. I figured this woman was full of crapola and it turns out that she is. Go figure. 

Like with most things, I'd expect the truth to be somewhere in between.  

The tone I get from these places is that once you step in there you are basically considered trans and steered on that path, and they are there to provide counselingand servixes .  My concern is proper diagnosis, since we know in general we are falling behind on mental health and it doesn't seem like these places are well suited for giving proper diagnoses either.  

[jonmx 2,462]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

Woo Hoo!!!  Third time this has been posted!!!!  

Great....that counteracts the hundreds of times you dumbasses have posted saying this doesn't happen.  

[Strike 6,013]

4 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Great....that counteracts the hundreds of times you dumbasses have posted saying this doesn't happen.  

ME?????  WTF?   You got me confused with Tim or something?  I'm the one who posted that article FIRST. 

[jonmx 2,462]

13 minutes ago, Strike said:

ME?????  WTF?   You got me confused with Tim or something?  I'm the one who posted that article FIRST. 

Sorry....but what this women says needs to be repeated a thousand times.  Those bastards are going to end up in a body bag for speaking out.   Don't underestimate the evil which exists. It is all about money and Power with those fascists bastards.  

[The Real timschochet 7,434]

44 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

I don't know that i have done the above.  Of course you may be addressing the general discussion here and not me in partuicular.  Were i to express an opinion on this matter i would probably take the position that the recent uptick in this phenomenon is such that it is too early to know with any certainty one way or another what the long term and even meium term   ramifications are.  You point out anecdotes are matters from which we ought not draw concliusions.  i might suggest that we are far from statistically significant longitudinal studies.  In effect the studies you rely on can themselves be considered anecdotal back to a time of greater caution and vetting odf candidates for reassignment.

 

In the end what do I know, other than there are some in great turmoil.  How that turmoil and pain is defined whether mental health problems or anomolous occurances  yet within regular parts of the norm, if a few standard deviations from the mean and simply subject to exacerbation due to ignorance and prejudice I cannot say with any degree of certainty.  I do know that some people are cruel seemingly for cruelty sake or to make themselves feel better by comparison (a base level of cognition, at best).  I do know some have their own agendas, emotional and financial for being supportive of almost any believe or behavior.  I do know that agendas make truth difficult to see.  I do know i don't have the truth.

 

Was it John Prine who wrote broken hearts and dirty windows, make life difficult to see, that's why last might and this morning, both look the same to me.

 

My granny and possibly yours too use to say you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Putting aside the fact that you catch more using as bait maybe there is some truth in what our grannies said.  Maybe you would be more pursuasive if a bit less adament.  Maybe not.

I appreciate this post. And the fact that you quoted John Prine makes me like it even more. 

[WhiskeyCash 65]

You guys don’t respect trans women cause you’re transphobic. I don’t respect them because they’re women 

- Trans inclusive radical misogyny 

[Mike Hunt 312]

7 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

They don’t start out with depression. The depression comes if they DON’T get the surgery. 

 

I don`t know the answer but what were the stats on trannys in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s?  Were the kids OK just dealing with life better without influence?

Was the depression and suicide there? Or is this the new century thing?