War in Israel

[IGotWorms 4,057]

2 minutes ago, nobody said:

I don't doubt some unknown number of children have died.  3000 kids a joke though and dumb.

As I understand they’re giving names and ID numbers. I guess it could still be false but it’s not like some estimate they’re pulling out of their butts: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033

UN thinks it’s a good faith effort.

And the Israelis are ensuring no one can independently assess, which should concern you.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,966]

54 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Use yours. I already wrote that the exact number is irrelevant anyhow. Kids ARE dying; you know that right? 

Yup. But we have every opportunity to stop kids from getting killed here in the US. But for soft hands and soft bellied twats like you. Keep giving money to the ACLU and BLM.  

[Strike 5,232]

2 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

As I understand they’re giving names and ID numbers. I guess it could still be false but it’s not like some estimate they’re pulling out of their butts: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033

UN thinks it’s a good faith effort.

And the Israelis are ensuring no one can independently assess, which should concern you.

Why should it concern me?  In the grand scheme of things, I don't care.  Israel is defending itself.  It is, and always has, done the best it can to avoid civilian casualties, unlike the terrorists that attack Israel who not only kill civilians in Israel but in their own country, and also hide behind civilians.  And this is a war.  Civilians DO die in war.  The USA has been so far removed from a real war for so long that some people like you and Tim seem to have forgotten that fact. 

[KSB2424 3,148]

Dear any person against the Israelis response to October 7th.  

If you were in charge, what would you have done differently?  

[IGotWorms 4,057]

28 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Dear any person against the Israelis response to October 7th.  

If you were in charge, what would you have done differently?  

That’s a fair question and the main reason why I, personally, am not *against* the response, though I do have concerns 

[The Real timschochet 6,472]

1 hour ago, KSB2424 said:

Dear any person against the Israelis response to October 7th.  

If you were in charge, what would you have done differently?  

Targeted assassination of those that did this. No bombing and no invasion. 

[jerryskids 6,579]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Targeted assassination of those that did this. No bombing and no invasion. 

Easy peasy.  It's genius, I can't believe they didn't think of this in the past 20+ years.  You should send them a message, maybe you'll get a Nobel Peace Prize.   

[The Real timschochet 6,472]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Easy peasy.  It's genius, I can't believe they didn't think of this in the past 20+ years.  You should send them a message, maybe you'll get a Nobel Peace Prize.   

It’s not easy. And it doesn’t satisfy the public thirst for vengeance. But the result, whether success or failure, is safer for Israel than what they have chosen to do IMO. 

[The Real timschochet 6,472]

If right after 9/11, President Bush had said “we’re not going to bomb and invade Afghanistan, we’re going to find the leaders of al-Queada and kill them. We have to do it quietly and it may take years.”, that would not have been very popular with the American public. But we’d be so much better off…

[BuckSwope 654]

9 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Targeted assassination of those that did this. No bombing and no invasion. 

You understand how elaborate the tunnel system is they use and how they hide in hospitals and schools, right?  

[IGotWorms 4,057]

9 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Easy peasy.  It's genius, I can't believe they didn't think of this in the past 20+ years.  You should send them a message, maybe you'll get a Nobel Peace Prize.   

 

 

[5-Points 3,399]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

It’s not easy. And it doesn’t satisfy the public thirst for vengeance. But the result, whether success or failure, is safer for Israel than what they have chosen to do IMO. 

What is best for Isreal is the total annihilation of Hamas, Hezbollah and their Iranian backers. Be it current or future participants. 

Isreal would live in peace if the savages surrounding them would let them. 

[jerryskids 6,579]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

It’s not easy. And it doesn’t satisfy the public thirst for vengeance. But the result, whether success or failure, is safer for Israel than what they have chosen to do IMO. 

Your opinion that Israel is better off letting Hamas come in and rape and burn women and children whenever they want is duly noted.  Israel disagrees.

[5-Points 3,399]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

If right after 9/11, President Bush had said “we’re not going to bomb and invade Afghanistan, we’re going to find the leaders of al-Queada and kill them. We have to do it quietly and it may take years.”, that would not have been very popular with the American public. But we’d be so much better off…

And it wouldn't have dissuaded anybody from doing the same sh!t again and again. 

And, no, we wouldn't be better off. 

The world would be better off if we'd turned the entire shithoIe into glass 

[The Real timschochet 6,472]

5 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

You understand how elaborate the tunnel system is they use and how they hide in hospitals and schools, right?  

Yes.

[The Real timschochet 6,472]

7 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Your opinion that Israel is better off letting Hamas come in and rape and burn women and children whenever they want is duly noted.  Israel disagrees.

I don’t believe that I offered that opinion but you’re welcome to find it and link it for me. 

[Gepetto 1,292]

I didn't realize how many heads of government and military generals we had here right at the Geek Club.

[nobody 2,570]

Dude thinks this an action movie.

 

[Gepetto 1,292]

1 minute ago, nobody said:

Dude thinks this an action movie.

 

Yea, he should give Jack Bauer a call to get the bad guys in Gaza.

[BuckSwope 654]

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Yes.

Then you can understand how your solution wouldn't be effective.   Or did you mean they should at least start there? 

[The Real timschochet 6,472]

1 hour ago, BuckSwope said:

Then you can understand how your solution wouldn't be effective.   Or did you mean they should at least start there? 

Maybe it would be effective, maybe it wouldn’t. I’m quite sure what they’re doing now won’t be effective, 

[Strike 5,232]

27 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Maybe it would be effective, maybe it wouldn’t. I’m quite sure what they’re doing now won’t be effective, 

To a large extent I agree with you.  But that's because I think the middle east is a cesspool with large parts of it acting like we did 3000 years ago.  The head of Hamas literally said to his own people today or yesterday that they needed to sacrifice their kids, women, and elders for this cause.  There isn't much that's going to deter those people.  Of the options I believe what the Israelis are doing is best because it may offer some short term security.  It may not.  We will see. 

This situation is really a no win situation.  It's like the Kobayashi Maru is playing out before our own eyes.  I think we should consult Captain Kirk for an appropriate course of action.

[The Real timschochet 6,472]

The other big problem is that most Palestinians, along with most Muslims, simply don’t believe that Hamas did what the Israelis claim. They think that our media is lying to us. (Which, I believe, points out the danger of rejecting the MSM.) 

[The Real timschochet 6,472]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

To a large extent I agree with you.  But that's because I think the middle east is a cesspool with large parts of it acting like we did 3000 years ago.  The head of Hamas literally said to his own people today or yesterday that they needed to sacrifice their kids, women, and elders for this cause.  There isn't much that's going to deter those people.  Of the options I believe what the Israelis are doing is best because it may offer some short term security.  It may not.  We will see. 

This situation is really a no win situation.  It's like the Kobayashi Maru is playing out before our own eyes.  I think we should consult Captain Kirk for an appropriate course of action.

Good post. 

[Flipper 60]

Nobody knows what is real or fake news ...

[League Champion 1,896]

11 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Use yours. I already wrote that the exact number is irrelevant anyhow. Kids ARE dying; you know that right? 

1 kid dying is too many but what's Israel to do? If they don't destroy Hamas completely then they're doing this every 3 years. How would you feel if Mexico attacked us every week? Ohh wait, they do. Nobody cares open borders, yeah!!

[Engorgeous George 2,161]

On 10/26/2023 at 11:27 AM, HellToupee said:

It’s hard to believe this is the US

 

Or does it show Jewish students occupying the library and denying its use to Palestinian students just trying to get an education.

[BuckSwope 654]

7 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Maybe it would be effective, maybe it wouldn’t. I’m quite sure what they’re doing now won’t be effective, 

Won't be effective at doing what?    Myself and others are saying that unfortunately because of where they are and how they act, this is the best way to clear them out.   The precision strikes without invasion will make it far more likely that the result is civilian deaths but not much touching Hamas.   What they are doing will be more effective at taking Hamas out (but the unfortunate part is that it's AS WELL as citizens. ).  

I get where you are going and agree to a point.   The problem for us is their decisions are not in a vacuum and we are directly tied to them.  That's where I don't agree with Strike's flippant post above  - we should care because it's soon going to affect us and our soldiers.   Could we have pushed them to get humanitarian aid to the people or go about it differently on that front?  Possibly, but we also can't say they don't have a valid point that this would allow Hamas an avenue to escape as well (or they would end up with the supplies and the citizens still suffer).  

[Hardcore troubadour 14,966]

Real Tim must think Israel created these terrorists and made them into bloodthirsty savages that rape women and behead babies. Better be nice or the next generation will be worse I guess. 

[TimHauck 2,633]

11 hours ago, nobody said:

I don't doubt some unknown number of children have died.  3000 kids a joke though and dumb.

Well there was someone in here that said 26 year olds were kids for the purpose of the age tranny surgeries should be banned, so maybe that’s how Palestine is counting?

[Cdub100 3,847]

11 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Targeted assassination of those that did this. No bombing and no invasion. 

I agree

[The Real timschochet 6,472]

Someone on TV made a reasonable argument this morning which gave me pause. The guy basically said: “I think Israel has made the wrong decision here with the incessant bombing and the ground invasion, I don’t think it’s going to work. But now that they’ve begun this they might as well finish it. It would be worse to have a ceasefire right now. The damage is already done so you might as well try to finish off Hamas and hope that it all turns out well.” 

It’s only been a few minutes since I’ve heard this argument so I can’t say I’m completely sold. But it does make a certain amount of sense to me. 

[Horseman 2,376]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Someone on TV made a reasonable argument this morning which gave me pause. The guy basically said: “I think Israel has made the wrong decision here with the incessant bombing and the ground invasion, I don’t think it’s going to work. But now that they’ve begun this they might as well finish it. It would be worse to have a ceasefire right now. The damage is already done so you might as well try to finish off Hamas and hope that it all turns out well.” 

It’s only been a few minutes since I’ve heard this argument so I can’t say I’m completely sold. But it does make a certain amount of sense to me. 

Example of a guy who has to post every waking thought in his imaginary online life.  

[The Real timschochet 6,472]

On the other hand it sounds like this effort could take months or longer. So I’m still not sure that argument is a good one. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,966]

There has not been incessant bombing.  

[Voltaire 5,203]

18 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

Let’s Recap.

1.  On October 7th 2023 Hamas the elected leaders of Palestine conducted an air and land assault on Israel.  Not on its army but on its citizens.  Paragliding into a music festival and just killing people.  Others going door to door in neighborhoods and killing families, burning people alive.  Parading raped and bloodied women in the streets.  Over 1,400 confirmed dead.  

2.  The response has been to bomb Hamas in Gaza where the intelligence says there are munitions and Hamas leadership.  Consequentially innocent people have died. Hamas hides behind civilians just for that reason. 

3.  Now the ground offensive begins as Israel enters Gaza on land to root out Hamas soldiers, leaders and munitions.  
 

I am 100% behind all that has happened thus far.  IF it’s confirmed Israel on their ground assault is targeting Palestine Civilians and not Hamas soldiers and leaders then I will change my tune. But not until then.  
 

Due to changes in life, I'm too busy to post as much as I use to, but everything I see KSB post is spot on the money for how I feel on these issues.

There is no moral equivalence. Hamas targets any Israeli civilian or military. Israel goes out of their way to warn Palestinian civilians to move and hold back from inflicting more casualites than necessary. Hamas uses this to their advantage, telling people not to move when attacked, hiding behind or underneath civilians and using schools and hospitals as the base of operations. As for the Palestinian people - they stay put and get bombed. Is it because they are more afraid of Hamas, they believe that dying this way demonstrates their religious piety and is honorable to God, because they have no where else to go, or some combination of factors? Whatever...  Hamas is using their own people as human shields.

Israelis aren't willing to live under threat from terrorists. No Muslim country (let alone anybody else) wants Palestinian refugees. It's a mess.

[MDC 7,152]

9 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Due to changes in life, I'm too busy to post as much as I use to, but everything I see KSB post is spot on the money for how I feel on these issues.

There is no moral equivalence. Hamas targets any Israeli civilian or military. Israel goes out of their way to warn Palestinian civilians to move and hold back from inflicting more casualites than necessary. Hamas uses this to their advantage, telling people not to move when attacked, hiding behind or underneath civilians and using schools and hospitals as the base of operations. As for the Palestinian people - they stay put and get bombed. Is it because they are more afraid of Hamas, they believe that dying this way demonstrates their religious piety and is honorable to God, because they have no where else to go, or some combination of factors? Whatever...  Hamas is using their own people as human shields.

Israelis aren't willing to live under threat from terrorists. No Muslim country (let alone anybody else) wants Palestinian refugees. It's a mess.

Israel is no innocent lamb. They steal Palestinian land, herd them into an open air prison and kill protestors. Gaza is a 25-mile strip with 2 million residents who aren’t allowed to leave. 

The US should have washed our hands of this mess decades ago. Unfortunately if we leave now Israel would probably murder all of Gaza before being annihilated by their neighbors. 

[Strike 5,232]

12 minutes ago, MDC said:

Israel is no innocent lamb. They steal Palestinian land, herd them into an open air prison and kill protestors. Gaza is a 25-mile strip with 2 million residents who aren’t allowed to leave. 

The US should have washed our hands of this mess decades ago. Unfortunately if we leave now Israel would probably murder all of Gaza before being annihilated by their neighbors. 

Did some googling.  Was unable to confirm that Israel prevents Palestinians from leaving the Gaza strip.  I'm sure you can provide some evidence of this "fact.".  TIA

[TimHauck 2,633]

18 minutes ago, MDC said:

Israel is no innocent lamb. They steal Palestinian land, herd them into an open air prison and kill protestors. Gaza is a 25-mile strip with 2 million residents who aren’t allowed to leave. 

The US should have washed our hands of this mess decades ago. Unfortunately if we leave now Israel would probably murder all of Gaza before being annihilated by their neighbors. 

Is there any evidence to suggest Israel’s neighbors could actually annihilate them?  History seems to say otherwise.

[MDC 7,152]

6 minutes ago, Strike said:

Did some googling.  Was unable to confirm that Israel prevents Palestinians from leaving the Gaza strip.  I'm sure you can provide some evidence of this "fact.".  TIA

I’m sure if you Googled extra hard you’d find out that Palestinians in Gaza aren’t allowed to travel through Israel unless they have a government issued permit.