Man dies after encounter with Minneapolis Police

[Strike 3,975]

7 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

They worked security at a club.  The cop worked outside, the victim was one of 12 security officers inside.  The owner said that she was sure that they were at work at the same time, but more than likely didnt interact much if at all.

Yeah, I read all that.  I find it hard to believe they never interacted.  It sounded like they both worked there for a good period of time.  The cop worked there for like 10 years or something.  So I suspect more will come out about how well these two knew each other.  Did they have a beef going back to their time working at the club?  Will be interesting to see where this goes.

[Hawkeye21 1,854]

17 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I've seen this quote before, not sure if you came up with it, but I wanted to acknowledge it because I love it. 

No, cities burn because (1) some people lack impulse control, and (2) others view it as an opportunity to get a new TV.

I've tried to engage you on this topic but you won't, because it doesn't fit your narrative. 

The two work together though.  Without the killing and possible swift action taken towards the officer there is no opportunity.  Can't really have one without the other.

[jerryskids 5,206]

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

The two work together though.  Without the killing and possible swift action taken towards the officer there is no opportunity.  Can't really have one without the other.

Sorry but I'm not getting your point here, please clarify. 

[Hawkeye21 1,854]

6 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Sorry but I'm not getting your point here, please clarify. 

He was basically saying that cities burn because of inaction during instances like this.  The cop killed a black man and he wasn't arrested yet and that's the reason for the riots, in his opinion.  You said cities burn because there is a lack of impulse control and because of the opportunity.  My point was that opportunity doesn't exist without the cop killing a black man or him being arrested right away.  There's always something that leads to riots, something that creates the opportunity, otherwise it would happen all the time.

The point is, you're both right.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

I’m all for letting the black rioters off the hook if Antifa gets the blame. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

Oh yeah, mad the cops haven’t been charged? Take it up with the attorney general of Minnesota. Keith Ellison. The states top cop. Doh! 

[Casual Observer 597]

2 hours ago, Fireballer said:

If you literally choke someone "to death", then yes you should be arrested and charged with murder.  The issue lies in the fact of whether your choke hold actually "caused" the death.  That cant be seen my observing video.  Hence, the Eric Garner situation.  

I personally think be will eventually be charged with 3rd degree, or no murder charge at all if the cause of death isnt anoxia.

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.

(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

 

 

Criminal Law is not my practice area, but let's keep a few things in mind here.  First, there is a Criminal Procedure Law that has to be followed.  We don't know but they may have this before a Grand Jury right now.  Second, what Fireballer quotes is something called "depraved indifference" murder.  Maybe it applies here.  There is also manslaughter, a lesser degree than murder, though someone died from another's conduct.  That could be something like "I meant to hurt him, not to kill him".  That may also apply.  I also understand that the coroner's report was inconclusive.  That certainly has some bearing here too.

[Fireballer 2,382]

3 minutes ago, Casual Observer said:

  I also understand that the coroner's report was inconclusive.  

We dont have coroners in my state, so Im not completely familiar...is his report an initial pre-autopsy exam or is it actually an autopsy report?  Did you see this somewhere you can link?

[Strike 3,975]

12 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

He was basically saying that cities burn because of inaction during instances like this.  The cop killed a black man and he wasn't arrested yet and that's the reason for the riots, in his opinion.  You said cities burn because there is a lack of impulse control and because of the opportunity.  My point was that opportunity doesn't exist without the cop killing a black man or him being arrested right away.  There's always something that leads to riots, something that creates the opportunity, otherwise it would happen all the time.

The point is, you're both right.

Yeah but it's pretty much only the blacks that go apesh*t every time this happens.  Cops have killed lots of white people unjustly and whitey didn't burn down his neighborhood or loot the Food King.  Jerry is saying one particular race has an issue with impulse control.  I'm not saying I agree with him, but I do get the point he is trying to make.

[Hawkeye21 1,854]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

Yeah but it's pretty much only the blacks that go apesh*t every time this happens.  Cops have killed lots of white people unjustly and whitey didn't burn down his neighborhood or loot the Food King.  Jerry is saying one particular race has an issue with impulse control.  I'm not saying I agree with him, but I do get the point he is trying to make.

As long as black people feel they are treated differently because of their race it's never going to change.  The black race still shares some responsibility as well though, like not rioting.

[Fireballer 2,382]

For those running on high emotions, read this article.  It pretty well fits my posts for the last three days. And before you blow it off, please see that Linda Kenney Baden is heavily cite here.  She is heavily left leaning. Shes represented AA families with a member killed by police. This is no right wing hack article.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/prosecutors-investigating-george-floyds-death-are-probably-examining-these-options-right-now/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

The prosecutor needs to determine” precisely how Floyd died, Baden said, because while Chauvin, the officer identified has having his knee to Floyd’s neck, may not have been the primary cause of Floyd’s death. While Chauvin’s conduct “looks more egregious to the cause of death,” it may not have been “the effective cause of death,” Baden noted. Prosecutors must narrow down who was responsible for what, specifically, before they move forward — assuming prosecutors are going to file charges.

“The compression from the middle cop preventing [Floyd’s] chest from being able to inhale and exhale probably is the effective cause” of death, Baden posited.  The “neck compression” played a role but perhaps was not the primary cause of death.  Baden believes Floyd likely died at the scene but wasn’t officially pronounced dead until he arrived at the hospital.

Baden believes third-degree murder is the most likely charge. Baden called Floyd’s cries to his mother “heartbreaking” and said she was strongly moved by Floyd’s decision to call the officers “sir” until he lost consciousness and possibly died on the street.

[Strike 3,975]

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

As long as black people feel they are treated differently because of their race it's never going to change.  The black race still shares some responsibility as well though, like not rioting.

I addressed this a couple days ago:

Quote

 

1)  Statistically, black people are no more likely to get killed by cops as white people.  Maybe even less likely.

2)  White people don't go apesh*t every time a white person is killed by the cops.   O.J. brutally killed two white people and walked away.  Whitey didn't loot Los Angeles.  Heck, a lot of black people thought it was ok, that it was retribution for all the ills done to the black community by whitey and/or the cops.

3)  Sometimes guilty people go free.  That's one of the tenets of our society and legal system; that we would rather let 100 guilty people go free than convict one innocent one.

The problem isn't that these things happen.  That is a problem but the likelihood of ever getting any statistic down to zero is pretty much zero.  So, when I say the problem, I'm talking about the realistic one.  And that is this notion that there's some unique injustice every time a cop kills a black person.  It's an injustice.  It's not unique or targeted though in most cases.  As long as black culture plays the victim and refuses to acknowledge that we are going to have this type of situation over and over.

 

 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

14 minutes ago, Strike said:

I addressed this a couple days ago:

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the article you quoted indicate that blacks are more likely to be killed than whites if you take into account that they make up less of the population?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

Every time there is a questionable police death nearly everyone just retreats into their camps and digs in. Then the whole racial dynamic is debated until the next shiny object comes along. But this time was different. Everyone was on the same page. Then the media jumped in and the rioting started and everyone is back in their camps. Opportunity missed. 

[Fireballer 2,382]

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Every time there is a questionable police death nearly everyone just retreats into their camps and digs in. Then the whole racial dynamic is debated until the next shiny object comes along. But this time was different. Everyone was on the same page. Then the media and wanna be message board legal experts jumped in and the rioting started and everyone is back in their camps. Opportunity missed. 

Fixored

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

Kneeler arrested. The National Guard and this should stop the riots. 

[The Observer 641]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Every time there is a questionable police death nearly everyone just retreats into their camps and digs in. Then the whole racial dynamic is debated until the next shiny object comes along. But this time was different. Everyone was on the same page. Then the media jumped in and the rioting started and everyone is back in their camps. Opportunity missed. 

This I agree with.  The black community mishandled this.  They had the whole country on their side.  Everyone who saw that video knew it was wrong and was outraged.  That's rare.  Just look at the Georgia case. And the woman in central park.  Rarely is the country united on something so racially charged.  The more they burn and steal, the more they are stepping all over their message.   I stand by my thought that the charges are taking way too long, but this was a huge opportunity lost for the black community

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Kneeler arrested. The National Guard and this should stop the riots. 

Should never have been still been on the force.  He's had 18 prior marks against him.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

3 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Should never have been still been on the force.  He's had 18 prior marks against him.

Well, I’d have to look at them, but I can only say that where I worked, he wouldn’t have been fired unless he was convicted of a crime or serious department violation.  . But once his numbers got up there, and depending what the allegations were, he wouldn’t be doing enforcement. He would be taken off the streets for a long time. 

[KSB2424 3,083]

13 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Every time there is a questionable police death nearly everyone just retreats into their camps and digs in. Then the whole racial dynamic is debated until the next shiny object comes along. But this time was different. Everyone was on the same page. Then the media jumped in and the rioting started and everyone is back in their camps. Opportunity missed. 

Bingo.

99% of people were basically on the same page until the looting and rioting started.

[Strike 3,975]

18 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the article you quoted indicate that blacks are more likely to be killed than whites if you take into account that they make up less of the population?

I don't think so.  I've never quoted an article with regard to that.  In doing a little research, the limited data out there does suggest blacks are more likely than whites to get killed by police.  However, that doesn't account for whether the killing was justified or not, which I think is important.   I suspect black people create situations that get them killed more often than other races, especially whitey, and by a large margin.  But the data in the U.S. is very limited.  So, amend my point 1 to say:

Quote

Statistically, black people are no more likely to be unjustly killed by cops as white people.  Maybe even less likely.

 

[mmmmm...beer 691]

Sooooooo... what are we talking about in here?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

22 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Every time there is a questionable police death nearly everyone just retreats into their camps and digs in. Then the whole racial dynamic is debated until the next shiny object comes along. But this time was different. Everyone was on the same page. Then the media jumped in and the rioting started and everyone is back in their camps. Opportunity missed. 

I missed what the media did this time. They reported on what was happening, but what fanning of the flames did they do in this one?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

2 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

I missed what the media did this time. They reported on what was happening, but what fanning of the flames did they do in this one?

Whatever man. I guess you’ve missed Joy Reid, Chris Cuomo,  Chris Hayes and Don Lemon amongst many more  this week. Saying things like “Trumps America”. Racism is white peoples fault, referring to rioters as protesters. . I could go on but I won’t. Seek and ye shall find. 

[KSB2424 3,083]

9 minutes ago, mmmmm...beer said:

Sooooooo... what are we talking about in here?

Cop goes overboard, man dies.  Most everyone is in agreement that it should be investigated to the fullest.  
 

People riot loot and burn their own city anyway.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,517]

2 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Cop goes overboard, man dies.  Most everyone is in agreement that it should be investigated to the fullest.  
 

People riot loot and burn their own city anyway.

Nothing helps your cause more than burning down, rioting, looting and assaulting people.  By doing all that, you certainly will have the moral authority and backing of everyone in the country!

[The Observer 641]

President Biden was just on giving a statement.  He reached out to George Floyd's family.  Can you believe that Trump hasn't done that?   Anyway, Biden called for unity. And working together to put an end to these racial wrongdoings.  Oh, and he somehow managed to not threaten to shoot anyone.

[iam90sbaby 2,125]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tony-timpa-disturbing-video-shows-dallas-officers-joking-as-they-restrain-man-who-died/

 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

12 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Whatever man. I guess you’ve missed Joy Reid, Chris Cuomo,  Chris Hayes and Don Lemon amongst many more  this week. Saying things like “Trumps America”. Racism is white peoples fault, referring to rioters as protesters. . I could go on but I won’t. Seek and ye shall find. 

I did miss it. I will look that up. 

[12th Man 884]

Van Jones, who I usually disagree with, nails it. Speaking directly to Newbie and his ilk:

 

 

[12th Man 884]

5 minutes ago, The Observer said:

President Biden was just on giving a statement.  He reached out to George Floyd's family.  Can you believe that Trump hasn't done that?   Anyway, Biden called for unity. And working together to put an end to these racial wrongdoings.  Oh, and he somehow managed to not threaten to shoot anyone.

You're the real racist. 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

23 minutes ago, Strike said:

I don't think so.  I've never quoted an article with regard to that.  In doing a little research, the limited data out there does suggest blacks are more likely than whites to get killed by police.  However, that doesn't account for whether the killing was justified or not, which I think is important.   I suspect black people create situations that get them killed more often than other races, especially whitey, and by a large margin.  But the data in the U.S. is very limited.  So, amend my point 1 to say:

 

I thought that you had posted some numbers of comparisons of whites and blacks killed while being taken into custody. Pure numbers showed that the blacks were fewer, but it was significantly higher than their portion of the population, so it was called out.  I will have to figure out who the hell posted it. 

[The Observer 641]

6 minutes ago, 12th Man said:

You're the real racist. 

Good one

[FeelingMN 273]

10 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Cop goes overboard, man dies.  Most everyone is in agreement that it should be investigated to the fullest.  
 

People riot loot and burn their own city anyway.

Supposedly people arriving from other cities to be a part of all this.  Not all are bad....but there's too many that are.  Fock Antifa.

Also, Walz has taken over the response going forward.  Basically threw Frey under the bus.  Totally understandable.  Minny's response last night was beyond embarrassing.  No leadership whatsoever.  

[12th Man 884]

Fake news that Newbie believes 

 

 

[The Observer 641]

1 minute ago, 12th Man said:

Fake news that Newbie believes 

 

 

Wow. CNN is good. They also got the state police and governor to apologize for the arrest. 

[tanatastic 2,061]

They arrested the cop at least. Too late, animals are already exploiting the outrage to loot and pillage, resulting in black businesses suffering. As usual, their biggest victims are their own people.

[12th Man 884]

1 minute ago, The Observer said:

Wow. CNN is good. They also got the state police and governor to apologize for the arrest. 

Yup they do it all the time and you fall for it all the time

 

 

[The Observer 641]

Third degree murder.  

[tanatastic 2,061]

Let’s all feel sad for the black lives that will lost at the hands of black attackers in the coming days from the riots and protests. Those are the real victims.