Nothing on the Texas School shooting?

[TimHauck 1,802]

13 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

The facts are not all out yet. I heard that interview with that guy on the radio. Not the shortened, "let's get the cops" version. 

You don't think the cops messed up?

[TimHauck 1,802]

 

[Nomad99 411]

39 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

The facts are not all out yet. I heard that interview with that guy on the radio. Not the shortened, "let's get the cops" version. 

Been watching the pressur....Teacher wedged door open. Safety resource officer on campus after 1st 911 call...drove right by the shooter. 20 officers waited outside door for 45 minutes before door was unlocked. They treated it as a barricade situation rather than active shooter. There is more. People are going to be hung out to dry.....

[Sean Mooney 1,184]

35 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

You don't think the cops messed up?

He can't think. 

 

That's the problem.

[TimHauck 1,802]

12 minutes ago, Nomad99 said:

Been watching the pressur....Teacher wedged door open. Safety resource officer on campus after 1st 911 call...drove right by the shooter. 20 officers waited outside door for 45 minutes before door was unlocked. They treated it as a barricade situation rather than active shooter. There is more. People are going to be hung out to dry.....

I think it's fair to criticize the teacher or whoever propped the door open.  But I'm assuming that happened prior to knowing there was a shooting going on, and I think it's a safe bet the shooter finds a different way in if that didn't happen.   Totally different than the claim which appears to be confirmed by the Director of the Texas Department of Public Safety that police knew the shooter was inside a classroom and chose not to enter.

[Nomad99 411]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

I think it's fair to criticize the teacher or whoever propped the door open.  But I'm assuming that happened prior to knowing there was a shooting going on, and I think it's a safe bet the shooter finds a different way in if that didn't happen.   Totally different than the claim which appears to be confirmed by the Director of the Texas Department of Public Safety that police knew the shooter was inside a classroom and chose not to enter.

Policy is that the doors are supposed to be locked....situation or not. Carelessness & complacency allowed the shooter access.

[TimHauck 1,802]

1 minute ago, Nomad99 said:

Policy is that the doors are supposed to be locked....situation or not. Carelessness & complacency allowed the shooter access.

Agreed.  I just have a feeling the guy finds his way in regardless so not sure if that stops this from happening.

[Gladiators 1,904]

5 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Agreed.  I just have a feeling the guy finds his way in regardless so not sure if that stops this from happening.

Agreed. Stupid policy. They should get rid of it.

[Nomad99 411]

7 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Agreed.  I just have a feeling the guy finds his way in regardless so not sure if that stops this from happening.

The cops were there & saw him enter the building. He never would have gained entry.

[Mike Honcho 4,039]

Texas Department of Public Safety Director Col. Steven McCraw on Friday gave a detailed timeline of the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School on May 24 that left 19 children and two teachers dead.

Here are the key moments he laid out (all times are in Central Standard Time):

11:27 a.m.: Video shows that an exterior door to Ross Elementary School that gunman Salvador Ramos entered was propped open by a teacher.

11:28 a.m: Ramos crashes a vehicle near the school into a ditch, gets out and begins firing upon two people who came outside to see the crash near a funeral home. Civilians are not struck by gunfire. The teacher runs to a room to get a phone, returns to the door, and the door remains open. 

11:30 a.m.: The first 911 call is made to Uvalde police reporting a car crash and a man with a gun outside the school.

11:30 a.m.: The US Marshals Service says it received a call from a Uvalde police officer requesting assistance.  

11:31 a.m.: The shooting suspect reaches the last row of cars in the school parking lot and shooting begins outside of the school. Patrol vehicles reach the funeral home, and a patrol car drives by shooter, who is hunkered down by another vehicle.

11:32 a.m.: The suspect fires at the school. 

11:33 a.m.: The suspect enters the school and begins shooting into a classroom. He shot more than 100 rounds.

11:35 a.m.: A total of seven officers are on the scene, and three officers enter the school, later followed by an additional team of three more officers and a sheriff. Two of the initial officers received grazing wounds from the suspect while the classroom door was closed.

11:37 a.m.: Sixteen rounds were fired from 11:37 a.m. to 11:44 a.m.

11:43 a.m.: Robb Elementary announces on Facebook that "Robb Elementary is under a Lockdown Status due to gunshots in the area."

11:51 a.m.: More officers arrive.

12:03 p.m.: As many as 19 officers are in the school's hallway. 

12:03 p.m.: A girl in room 112 of the school makes a 911 call.

12:10 p.m.: A 911 call is received from the same girl in room 112, reporting multiple people are dead.

12:13 p.m.: The girl makes another 911 call.

12:15 p.m.: Border Patrol's tactical unit BorTac team arrives on scene.

12:16 p.m.: The same girl makes another 911 call, reporting there were “eight to nine students alive."

12:17 p.m.: Robb Elementary announces on Facebook: "There is an active shooter at Robb Elementary. Law enforcement is on site. Your cooperation is needed at this time by not visiting the campus. As soon as more information is gathered it will be shared. The rest of the district is under a Secure Status."

12:19 p.m.: A different 911 call is received from a caller in room 111, but the caller hung up after another student told them to.

12:21 p.m.: Suspect fires again.

12:21 p.m.: Another 911 call is received, and three shots fired are heard.  

12:21 p.m.: Officers move down the hallway.

12:36 p.m.: There is a 911 call that last 21 seconds, with a student saying, "he shot the door."  

12:43 and 12:47 p.m.: 911 caller says "please send police now." 

12:46 p.m.: 911 caller can hear police next door.

12:50 p.m.: Shots are heard being fired over the 911 call.

12:50 p.m.: Law enforcement breach door using keys from janitor and kill suspect. 

12:51 p.m.: On 911 call, it sounds like officers are moving children out of the room.

[TimHauck 1,802]

1 minute ago, Nomad99 said:

The cops were there & saw him enter the building. He never would have gained entry.

If the door was locked?

[TimHauck 1,802]

7 minutes ago, Gladiators said:

Agreed. Stupid policy. They should get rid of it.

LOL, not what I said, but OK.   Of course it was wrong to leave the door open, but c'mon, people leave doors open that should be locked all the time.   Once again I think it's fair to criticize whoever propped the door open, but totally different than criticizing police officers who did nothing in the midst of a crisis.

[Gladiators 1,904]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

LOL, not what I said, but OK.   Of course it was wrong to leave the door open, but c'mon, people leave doors open that should be locked all the time.   Once again I think it's fair to criticize whoever propped the door open, but totally different than criticizing police officers who did nothing in the midst of a crisis.

I thought the police were keeping people from going in the school.

[TimHauck 1,802]

5 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

11:35 a.m.: A total of seven officers are on the scene, and three officers enter the school, later followed by an additional team of three more officers and a sheriff. Two of the initial officers received grazing wounds from the suspect while the classroom door was closed.

11:37 a.m.: Sixteen rounds were fired from 11:37 a.m. to 11:44 a.m.

12:03 p.m.: As many as 19 officers are in the school's hallway. 

12:03 p.m.: A girl in room 112 of the school makes a 911 call.

12:10 p.m.: A 911 call is received from the same girl in room 112, reporting multiple people are dead.

12:16 p.m.: The same girl makes another 911 call, reporting there were “eight to nine students alive."

12:21 p.m.: Another 911 call is received, and three shots fired are heard.  

12:36 p.m.: There is a 911 call that last 21 seconds, with a student saying, "he shot the door."  

12:50 p.m.: Law enforcement breach door using keys from janitor and kill suspect. 

holy crap at the amount of elapsed time between these events.

[TimHauck 1,802]

2 minutes ago, Gladiators said:

I thought the police were keeping people from going in the school.

ah true, my apologies.  so not only did they do nothing to stop it for an hour, they also prevented other people from trying to stop it

 

[Nomad99 411]

9 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

If the door was locked?

Yep

[Mike Honcho 4,039]

6 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

holy crap at the amount of elapsed time between these events.

I keep wondering if "The same girl makes another 911 call, reporting there were “eight to nine students alive."" she made it.  She made calls 13 minutes apart---longer 13 minutes than anything I've ever experienced in my life.

[TimHauck 1,802]

5 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

I keep wondering if "The same girl makes another 911 call, reporting there were “eight to nine students alive."" she made it.  She made calls 13 minutes apart---longer 13 minutes than anything I've ever experienced in my life.

Yup.  Or how many of the 8 or 9 made it.

[Nomad99 411]

12 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

LOL, not what I said, but OK.   Of course it was wrong to leave the door open, but c'mon, people leave doors open that should be locked all the time.   Once again I think it's fair to criticize whoever propped the door open, but totally different than criticizing police officers who did nothing in the midst of a crisis.

Teachers all over the country are screaming that they and students are not being kept safe....yet, it was one of there own that let the shooter in. "People leave doors open that should be locked all the time".....see the issue here. NO policy put in place is effective if it isn't followed. Now maybe people won't circumvent policy.....imean, what could happen?

[TimHauck 1,802]

1 minute ago, Nomad99 said:

Teachers all over the country are screaming that they and students are not being kept safe....yet, it was one of there own that let the shooter in. "People leave doors open that should be locked all the time".....see the issue here. NO policy put in place is effective if it isn't followed. Now maybe people won't circumvent policy.....imean, what could happen?

I know you're claiming otherwise but I don't think we know for sure he doesn't still get in if the door isn't propped open

[Hardcore troubadour 12,659]

Teachers in this country need to get their shite together. Here’s another example, just doing what they want to do. Spoiled. 

[Big Guy 1,400]

53 minutes ago, Nomad99 said:

The cops were there & saw him enter the building. He never would have gained entry.

strangely enough, your words reminded me of the video of the Washington Police ushering the "rioters" into the Capitol during the "Insurrection" 

like everything else nowadays, there are odd facts about

[Baker Boy 1,485]

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

You don't think the cops messed up?

The cops where called in to clean up the mess of the people who enabled and/or ignored the signs the shooter displayed.

If you want to stop the shootings you have to start with the shooter.

[Gepetto 988]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/texas-officials-say-officers-should-have-confronted-school-shooter-earlier/ar-AAXO5pD?rt=0&ocid=Win10NewsApp&referrerID=InAppShare

Texas law enforcement officials now say local police were wrong to have waited to enter the elementary school in Uvalde where a shooter killed 19 students and two teachers on Tuesday.

 

At a press conference Friday, Steven McCraw, the director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, said officers outside the school believed students were no longer in harm’s way after the suspected gunman barricaded himself in a classroom.

 

“From the benefit of hindsight, where I’m sitting now, of course it was not the right decision. It was the wrong decision. There’s no excuse for that.”

Police have received increasing scrutiny over the past few days for their handling of the shooting.

In the moments immediately following the attack on Tuesday, officials praised the actions of a team of U.S. Border Patrol and Uvalde police for neutralizing the 18-year-old gunman.

But video has since come out showing witnesses yelling at officers standing outside the school to enter and confront the shooter. The father of a student killed in the shooting proposed that the bystanders should team up to enter the school because the police were staying outside, The Associated Press reported.

The Uvalde Police Department published a press release on Thursday saying that officers responded to the attack “within minutes.” At a press conference later that day, Victor Escalon, a regional director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, said officers arrived at the school minutes after the gunman but needed to wait for reinforcements and more equipment after the shooter fired at them.

 

He said the Texas Ranger Division is leading the investigation into the shooting, including the way officers reacted.

Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-Texas) sent a letter to FBI Director Christopher Wray on Thursday requesting the agency launch its own independent investigation into what happened.

McCraw, the director of the Texas public safety department, confirmed that a door to the school had been open when the shooter entered, having been propped open by a teacher shortly before. 

McCraw said three Uvalde police officers who arrived on the scene a couple minutes after the shooter began firing in the school entered the building and received “grazing wounds” from the suspect.

An additional four officers, three of whom were members of the Uvalde Police Department and one county deputy sheriff, had also followed them in. He said officers began to arrive about 15 minutes later, and up to 19 officers were present in a hallway near the classroom where the suspect barricaded himself shortly after noon. 

He said the on-scene commander during this time believed the situation had transitioned from an active shooter to a barricaded subject, and children were no longer at risk. 

McCraw said members of the Border Patrol Tactical Unit arrived at 12:15 p.m. He said law enforcement officials breached the door to the classroom at 12:50 p.m. using keys from a janitor because the door was locked. At that time, the officers shot and killed the gunman. 

Officials had previously said they needed a staff member to provide a key because they were having trouble getting through the door. 

Updated at 2:36 p.m.

 

 

[KSB2424 3,083]

So, Monday Morning QB’ing is always easy to do with hindsight.  Also, chaos ensues and mistakes made.  

However, even with that in my minds eye this appears to be a clusterfock all around.  Damn.  

[TimHauck 1,802]

21 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

So, Monday Morning QB’ing is always easy to do with hindsight.  Also, chaos ensues and mistakes made.  

However, even with that in my minds eye this appears to be a clusterfock all around.  Damn.  

I think it's way more "Monday Morning QB'ing" to complain about someone propping a door open, than cops waiting 45 minutes to go in a room after getting multiple 911 calls from an elementary student that was in the room with the shooter.

[TBayXXXVII 2,118]

So if I'm reading this right, the 911 call goes in at 11:30... the shooter enters the classroom at 11:33, there are 7 officers outside that classroom door, said door that was barricaded, at 11:35.  There are 7 in the hallway outside the room within 5 minutes of the shooter entering the building and 2 minutes after the shooter entered the room.

Yes?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,659]

21 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

I think it's way more "Monday Morning QB'ing" to complain about someone propping a door open, than cops waiting 45 minutes to go in a room after getting multiple 911 calls from an elementary student that was in the room with the shooter.

Yup. If you’re a cop and you can’t think on your own or are unwilling to take a bullet in a situation like this, quit. This isn’t dealing with some street thug. I don’t expect a cop to take one for that.  Besides, cop or not, as as a man you should be willing to give it up for innocent kids.  If you saw a school on fire would you sit back and wait for an order? I hope any red blooded American man wouldn’t. 

[naomi 343]

Not sure if this has been mentioned already but the border patrol agent who took the shooter out was off-duty. 

Here's an article about it: https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/us-news/2022/05/25/628e8643e2704e222b8b461b.html

That unit is trained for the potential of shootouts with cartels.

[naomi 343]

5 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

Were all the cops Mexican American?  Maybe they have a different set of values / lower level of being men.

I don't imagine this guy is actually an outlier. https://nypost.com/2022/05/27/cbp-officer-jacob-albarado-runs-into-uvalde-school-with-barbers-shotgun-to-save-daughter/

Those who followed orders came off looking bad.

The armed men who didn't have orders to follow did a good job.

[Big Guy 1,400]

anybody else find it odd that this is happening during Mental Health Month and a week before the NRA convention? 

or on the order for that matter?

[TBayXXXVII 2,118]

32 minutes ago, naomi said:

I don't imagine this guy is actually an outlier. https://nypost.com/2022/05/27/cbp-officer-jacob-albarado-runs-into-uvalde-school-with-barbers-shotgun-to-save-daughter/

Those who followed orders came off looking bad.

The armed men who didn't have orders to follow did a good job.

Translation, those who have no one to answer to did what needed to be done.  Those who have someone to answer to, did what they were told to do to not risk going to jail.

[TimHauck 1,802]

56 minutes ago, Big Guy said:

anybody else find it odd that this is happening during Mental Health Month and a week before the NRA convention? 

or on the order for that matter?

Digby doesn’t.   The Dems definitely killed 19 kids so that they could pass some gun control laws.  You guys are nuts

[Big Guy 1,400]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

Digby doesn’t.   The Dems definitely killed 19 kids so that they could pass some gun control laws.  You guys are nuts

you have no idea what the Globalists are capable of do ya?

[TimHauck 1,802]

1 minute ago, Big Guy said:

you have no idea what the Globalists are capable of do ya?

Guess not 

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 minutes ago, Big Guy said:

you have no idea what the Globalists are capable of do ya?

He has a lot of faith in the integrity of the democratic party. 

He thinks Trump colluded with Russia to win an election.

[TimHauck 1,802]

5 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

He has a lot of faith in the integrity of the democratic party. 

He thinks Trump colluded with Russia to win an election.

I have faith that politicians aren’t organizing school shootings.

And no I don’t think Trump colluded with Russia, he won fair and square.  I voted for him after all.

[TimHauck 1,802]

7 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

He has a lot of faith in the integrity of the democratic party. 

He thinks Trump colluded with Russia to win an election.

TRUMP!!!!!

[Big Guy 1,400]

Just now, TimHauck said:

I have faith that politicians aren’t organizing school shootings.

And no I don’t think Trump colluded with Russia, he won fair and square.  I voted for him after all.

just keep an open mind, and if something doesn't seem right, question and search

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

TRUMP!!!!!

Exactly. Greatest president ever. 

I believe there would not be a war in Ukraine if Trump was still president.