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Ahmaud Arbery

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21 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

 

The black guy grabbed their gun.    Why can’t black people just follow the rules?  

Because they have too often experienced abuse of power and do not trust authority.

So they commit crimes because they don't trust authority? You do realize that most crimes are against other citizens right? So by your reasoning, they don't trust authority, and because of that, they shoot 46 innocent people last weekend alone in Chicago. 

 

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36 minutes ago, Crestwood 2 said:

Manslaughter.

 

The black guy grabbed their gun.    Why can’t black people just follow the rules?   
 

Just don’t commit crimes and you’ll live. Why can’t the blacks understand that ????

Yep. And everyone should be telling white people that they have nothing to fear from any black strangers because everyone knows black criminal activity is very very low in the US percentage of population wise.

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13 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

So they commit crimes because they don't trust authority? You do realize that most crimes are against other citizens right? So by your reasoning, they don't trust authority, and because of that, they shoot 46 innocent people last weekend alone in Chicago. 

 

No. There are many reasons they (and others) commit crimes.  Following rules/complying with authority (or in this case false authority) can have fatal results.  

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2 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

No. There are many reasons they (and others) commit crimes.  Following rules/complying with authority (or in this case false authority) can have fatal results.  

I don't think anyone considers those two yokels authority. But he should not have been in that house and he should not have charged the dude holding a gun.

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5 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

I don't think anyone considers those two yokels authority. But he should not have been in that house and he should not have charged the dude holding a gun.

They were utilizing guns to assert their "authority" and will. That needed to be left to the cops.  

Of course I am speculating, but i do not believe he would have charged police officers if they were the ones attempting to apprehend/question him. 

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40 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

They were utilizing guns to assert their "authority" and will. That needed to be left to the cops.  

Of course I am speculating, but i do not believe he would have charged police officers if they were the ones attempting to apprehend/question him. 

I've seen a lot of times in the past where black communities put together groups of homeowners who had walked the streets at nights to deter crime. Same thing in this case. I think more people should keep their eyes out and take care of the people around them. If this dude never attacked the guy with the gun, I would bet a lot of money he would still be alive and probably living free at this moment.

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30 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

I've seen a lot of times in the past where black communities put together groups of homeowners who had walked the streets at nights to deter crime. Same thing in this case. I think more people should keep their eyes out and take care of the people around them. If this dude never attacked the guy with the gun, I would bet a lot of money he would still be alive and probably living free at this moment.

Great. I am all for neighborhood watch programs.  They are typically supported and trained by local PD.  This probably would have gone a different way if the two guys had something to identify themselves.

 

The father was a retired cop right?  He should know better than run around with guns.

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The person in the night video is NOT Ahmaud. Ahmaud is a dark skinned black person while the man caught on the video drinking water off camera was light skinned. 

The men in the car with guns chasing down Ahmaud seemed like scary potential murderers, which they in fact were. Ahmaud didn't have to stop and talk to them. He had committed no crime. What normal human being thinks it's a crime to look at a home under construction? Not me! 

 

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12 minutes ago, peenie said:

The person in the night video is NOT Ahmaud. Ahmaud is a dark skinned black person while the man caught on the video drinking water off camera was light skinned. 

The men in the car with guns chasing down Ahmaud seemed like scary potential murderers, which they in fact were. Ahmaud didn't have to stop and talk to them. He had committed no crime. What normal human being thinks it's a crime to look at a home under construction? Not me! 

 

I will guarantee you he has no history of home construction as a trade, interest, hobby or education in carpentry. 

But yes I agree he didnt have to stop, and billy bob and his neanderthal redneck son tried to play cop with lenient carry laws in that state the were a major factor unfortunately 

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1 hour ago, Bier Meister said:

Great. I am all for neighborhood watch programs.  They are typically supported and trained by local PD.  This probably would have gone a different way if the two guys had something to identify themselves.

 

The father was a retired cop right?  He should know better than run around with guns.

 I thought it was legal to carry where they live. And why does this keep getting back to "if they weren't carrying guns" rather than, "if the black dude wasn't trespassing in someone else's home and property" this would never have happened?

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6 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

 I thought it was legal to carry where they live. And why does this keep getting back to "if they weren't carrying guns" rather than, "if the black dude wasn't trespassing in someone else's home and property" this would never have happened?

Are we shooting jaywalkers now? What about people that don’t wear masks? Speeders? 
 

Just want to get some sort of line when we want vigilantes to be using lethal force?

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47 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Are we shooting jaywalkers now? What about people that don’t wear masks? Speeders? 
 

Just want to get some sort of line when we want vigilantes to be using lethal force?

We catch people that are going into our homes uninvited.

We shoot people that attack us violently.

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I bet no one confronted the white people who walked through that same home construction. I'm sure they didn't get yelled at or followed or asked questions with guns pointed at them. 

I can't wait to see all the videos of white folks walking in and out of that home to contradict that it's considered trespassing when you all know good and well that people out of curiosity will look around.

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10 hours ago, Crestwood 2 said:

Manslaughter.

 

The black guy grabbed their gun.    Why can’t black people just follow the rules?   
 

Just don’t commit crimes and you’ll live. Why can’t the blacks understand that ????

Liberals and the politically correct crowd don't want to answer these questions truthfully. The cold, hard facts are that they are less evolved and will always be behind until they are held accountable. There is a reason they are at the bottom of the charts when it comes to intelligence and at the top of the charts when it comes to crime. 

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20 hours ago, The Observer said:

Uhh, you're 100% wrong about me.  I'm ONLY concerned about what's in the video. I don't care if he stole a Snickers bar from the CVS in 2014 or if he trespassed at a jobsite and looked around a little.   Other factors may alter my opinion on how long they should be in jail, but certainly not in the fact that they're guilty. 

The problem I'm having is placing a finger on where on the tapes is the crime is that McMichael will be found guilty of. Is it chasing down Arbury? Is it setting up his roadblock? Is it getting out of the truck with a rifle? Is it shooting Arbury? I think a good defense attorney could explain away all those things. For both chasing down Arbury and for setting up the roadblock, they had probably cause that Arbury is at least a trespasser. Fireballer says they can only set up a roadblock/detain for a felony so maybe, depending on how Georgia law defines that. For taking the gun with him (while stupid and provocative) Georgia is an open carry state. For shooting Arbury, once Arbury grabs his gun, that's self defense.

I wouldn't mind if there is something to charge the McMichaels with. I hope there is. After all, the outcome was horrible and the reason that a trespassing violation escalated to death is because the McMichaels were quite aggressive and provocative in their actions. I'm just not sure from what direction the prosecutor will be able to come at this with and say "this is where the McMichaels broke the law." I don't see the prosecutor's opening but I'm no expert on legal matters, we'll see what they do.

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9 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

The problem I'm having is placing a finger on where on the tapes is the crime is that McMichael will be found guilty of. Is it chasing down Arbury? Is it setting up his roadblock? Is it getting out of the truck with a rifle? Is it shooting Arbury? I think a good defense attorney could explain away all those things. For both chasing down Arbury and for setting up the roadblock, they had probably cause that Arbury is at least a trespasser. For taking the gun with him (while stupid and provocative) Georgia is an open carry state. For shooting Arbury, once Arbury grabs his gun, that's self defense.

I wouldn't mind if there is something to charge the McMichaels with. I hope there is. After all, the outcome was horrible and the reason that a trespassing violation escalated to death is because the McMichaels were quite aggressive and provocative in their actions. I'm just not sure from what direction the prosecutor will be able to come at this with and say "this is where the McMichaels broke the law." I don't see the prosecutor's opening but I'm no expert on legal matters, we'll see what they do.

Were the two rednecks having trouble getting the cops to come out and handling it?  Why did they take it upon themselves to be judge and jury? They set up a roadblock and got out with a shotgun in their hands? This wasn't a hardened criminal or someone who is a danger to society. Why not call the cops?   I've said this all along, if they had gotten out of the truck to confront this kid and a fight ensued and the two of them ended up roughing him up before they could restrain him long enough for the cops to come, that would be different. Were they really that pussified that they were scared to confront him two-on-one?  The reason for the shotgun was because if the black kid put up a fight, they would kill him.  

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As a redneck, I don’t appreciate non rednecks using the derogatory name. 

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21 minutes ago, The Observer said:

Were the two rednecks having trouble getting the cops to come out and handling it?  Why did they take it upon themselves to be judge and jury? They set up a roadblock and got out with a shotgun in their hands? This wasn't a hardened criminal or someone who is a danger to society. Why not call the cops?   I've said this all along, if they had gotten out of the truck to confront this kid and a fight ensued and the two of them ended up roughing him up before they could restrain him long enough for the cops to come, that would be different. Were they really that pussified that they were scared to confront him two-on-one?  The reason for the shotgun was because if the black kid put up a fight, they would kill him.  

The McMichaels had wanted the cops to handle it. They'd called the cops while Arbury was in the house and he took off mid-phone call. They weren't trying to be the judge and jury either, they were trying to apprehend him. That he would up dead may well have only occured because he'd grabbed the rifle. 

 I agree that getting out of the truck with a shotgun was fokcing stupid and highly provocative. Arbury was unarmed so if you're going to confront him, tackle him, that rifle was just going to be in the way making it harder. Meanwhile Arbury had a sh*t decision to make and an instant to make it... do I stop? do I keep running and hope I don't get shot in the back? or do I try to take the gun off the guy following me? 

That he chose not to surrender himself to the mercy of these guys doesn't seem like an unreasonable choice, although it's what killed him.

I'm no lawyer but I circle back to the notion that I can't find a point anywhere on the video recording that the McMasters had done anything illegal that they can be charged with. The worst thing they'd done, obviously, is shoot an unarmed man. And I never did see the killing shot. Arbury was still upright when the video I saw of him ended. He had grabbed the rifle though, that's clear, and that in itself opens up a viable claim of self defense.

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4 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

The McMichaels had wanted the cops to handle it. They'd called the cops while Arbury was in the house and he took off mid-phone call. They weren't trying to be the judge and jury either, they were trying to apprehend him. That he would up dead may well have only occured because he'd grabbed the rifle. 

 I agree that getting out of the truck with a shotgun was fokcing stupid and highly provocative. Arbury was unarmed so if you're going to confront him, tackle him, that rifle was just going to be in the way making it harder. Meanwhile Arbury had a sh*t decision to make and an instant to make it... do I stop? do I keep running and hope I don't get shot in the back? or do I try to take the gun off the guy following me? 

That he chose not to surrender himself to the mercy of these guys doesn't seem like an unreasonable choice, although it's what killed him.

I'm no lawyer but I circle back to the notion that I can't find a point anywhere on the video recording that the McMasters had done anything illegal that they can be charged with. The worst thing they'd done, obviously, is shoot an unarmed man. And I never did see the killing shot. Arbury was still upright when the video I saw of him ended. He had grabbed the rifle though, that's clear, and that in itself opens up a viable claim of self defense.

Like I said, wait for the cops to get there. No one was in danger. Take pictures of him if you are afraid that he gets away this time. But to physically confront the kid with a shotgun? Come on we weren't dealing with a rapist here or someone in there with a gun or trying to kill someone.  Mistakes were made.  The black kid made a mistake fighting back and it cost him his life. But the two rednecks made a mistake in trying to take business in their own hands and using a shotgun to do it. Instead of paying with their lives they're going to pay with jail time. As they should

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12 minutes ago, The Observer said:

Like I said, wait for the cops to get there. No one was in danger. Take pictures of him if you are afraid that he gets away this time. But to physically confront the kid with a shotgun? Come on we weren't dealing with a rapist here or someone in there with a gun or trying to kill someone.  Mistakes were made.  The black kid made a mistake fighting back and it cost him his life. But the two rednecks made a mistake in trying to take business in their own hands and using a shotgun to do it. Instead of paying with their lives they're going to pay with jail time. As they should

I agree with you. I have great sympathy for Arbury. He'd been there multiple times for whatever reason but had never stolen anything. The McMichaels couldn't have known that. They saw him trespass and run. They started calling the police then chasing him down. They'd had a gun stolen recently so they're not in the mood to put up with what seems to them a criminal getting away.  I'd say that it starts with them being good neighbors. The situation escalated from there because the McMichaels were aggressive and unnecessarily provocative.

What's likely to happen is the defense attorney is going to say "see that, that's legal," "this is legal," "this also is legal" and Arbury's corpse is on the ground and there's been no crime committed at any point, even though the whole thing is focked up. We see the situation escalate...and it's the McMichaels' fault it does until the point of the rifle grab, then it escalates to death.

Arbury shouldn't be dead. There should be some punishment to the events that led to them killing him, but where? If the prosecutors can show me the point where the McMichaels broke the law, I'll listen. I'd be inclined to give them jail time. I'm just not seeing them doing anything illegal.

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4 hours ago, peenie said:

I bet no one confronted the white people who walked through that same home construction. I'm sure they didn't get yelled at or followed or asked questions with guns pointed at them. 

I can't wait to see all the videos of white folks walking in and out of that home to contradict that it's considered trespassing when you all know good and well that people out of curiosity will look around.

How many of those white people tried to grab a gun out of a man’s hand.  That will get you shot 10 out of 10 times. Race doesn’t matter.

 

Why do you defend black people just because they are black? It’s quite sickening 

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4 hours ago, peenie said:

I bet no one confronted the white people who walked through that same home construction. I'm sure they didn't get yelled at or followed or asked questions with guns pointed at them. 

I can't wait to see all the videos of white folks walking in and out of that home to contradict that it's considered trespassing when you all know good and well that people out of curiosity will look around.

Try not being racist one day. I bet your life improves!! Just try it

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3 minutes ago, Crestwood 2 said:

Try not being racist one day. I bet your life improves!! Just try it

The race angle is the biggest angle. The optics of two white men in a pickup truck, plus another vehicle behind filming an unarmed black man getting shot are horrible in today's racially charged climate. Then the notion that this escalated from trespassing to death. Then the fact that there was no action on this from the local DA until the video surfaced.

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2 hours ago, Alias Detective said:

As a redneck, I don’t appreciate non rednecks using the derogatory name. 

He’s woke and self hates. Daddy issues. But he would never, ever call a redneck a redneck to their face. He knows he would get crushed. 

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2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

He’s woke and self hates. Daddy issues. But he would never, ever call a redneck a redneck to their face. He knows he would get crushed. 

Yes because they're very tough. Two rednecks could not confront a skinny black kid without a shotgun. They were scared even though together they outweigh the kid 400lb to about 160   But one of them is going to crush a 230 lb guy like me. LOL.   

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13 hours ago, peenie said:

The person in the night video is NOT Ahmaud. Ahmaud is a dark skinned black person while the man caught on the video drinking water off camera was light skinned. 

The men in the car with guns chasing down Ahmaud seemed like scary potential murderers, which they in fact were. Ahmaud didn't have to stop and talk to them. He had committed no crime. What normal human being thinks it's a crime to look at a home under construction? Not me! 

 

A human being who, upon being confronted when leaving the house, runs away.  That implies guilt.

He didn't deserve to die for that, but like I said in my first post, there was plenty of stupid to go around in this one.  

That being said, as I've thought through this, my current position is that the McMichaels need to be convicted of something and serve some time.  Setting up a roadblock, with guns in hand, put Arbery in a very difficult position.  And more importantly, the state (of Georgia, or any state) does NOT want its citizens doing that.  Because... something like this might happen.  I don't know if it warrants a felony, and I don't know that it is manslaughter, but I think they need to be found guilty of something, as a future deterrent.  Which I also said in my first post.

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"I'm not aware of any laws they broke but charge with them something ANYTHING."

Sad

Pass some new laws in response to this, sure. But if they didn't break any laws that are already on the books joining the lynch mob and forcing a charge when there isn't one is un-American.

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4 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

He’s woke and self hates. Daddy issues. But he would never, ever call a redneck a redneck to their face. He knows he would get crushed. 

Newbie probably would get crushed by just about anyone over the age of 10 in real life. But on internet chat sites, watch out. 

Newbie in action in real life: 

"Awww, but I don't wanna go to bed. I'm destroying people all over the internet world."

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33 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

A human being who, upon being confronted when leaving the house, runs away.  That implies guilt.

He didn't deserve to die for that, but like I said in my first post, there was plenty of stupid to go around in this one.  

That being said, as I've thought through this, my current position is that the McMichaels need to be convicted of something and serve some time.  Setting up a roadblock, with guns in hand, put Arbery in a very difficult position.  And more importantly, the state (of Georgia, or any state) does NOT want its citizens doing that.  Because... something like this might happen.  I don't know if it warrants a felony, and I don't know that it is manslaughter, but I think they need to be found guilty of something, as a future deterrent.  Which I also said in my first post.

I could agree with this.  Introducing a roadblock and yielding guns is an assertion of power that these two did not, nor should not,  possess. It is an aggressive act.

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49 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

A human being who, upon being confronted when leaving the house, runs away.  That implies guilt.

He didn't deserve to die for that, but like I said in my first post, there was plenty of stupid to go around in this one.  

That being said, as I've thought through this, my current position is that the McMichaels need to be convicted of something and serve some time.  Setting up a roadblock, with guns in hand, put Arbery in a very difficult position.  And more importantly, the state (of Georgia, or any state) does NOT want its citizens doing that.  Because... something like this might happen.  I don't know if it warrants a felony, and I don't know that it is manslaughter, but I think they need to be found guilty of something, as a future deterrent.  Which I also said in my first post.

Well, why was it ok for ANTIFA thugs to scare the crap out of motorists driving where they wanted to go. Not only did they set up a roadblock, they were screaming in people's faces very threateningly, racial slurs while wearing masks etc. and this was all ok with everyone. What would have happened if someone acted "irrationally", frightened of being by these people and just hit the gas to get away and  ran over one of them? Or what if someone got out of his car and attacked. He would have had 10 people on top of him beating the crap out of him.

 

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I don’t think these things are black and white. 
 

different scenarios require different “rules “ and consequences. 
 

provoking with guns should be punishable 

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7 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

I don’t think these things are black and white. 
 

different scenarios require different “rules “ and consequences. 
 

provoking with guns should be punishable 

In the case of ANTIFA, wearing masks and having your car surrounded by people who all look and act they want kill you is just as bad as someone holding a gun.

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... so, there he was, innocently jogging back from Subway sandwiches at 2 in the morning and two guys in maga hats show up with guns and a noose..

 

 

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10 minutes ago, wiffleball said:

... so, there he was, innocently jogging back from Subway sandwiches at 2 in the morning and two guys in maga hats show up with guns and a noose..

 

 

That has never been my position.  There are better ways for citizens to deal with suspicious activity.

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1 minute ago, Bier Meister said:

That has never been my position.  There are better ways for citizens to deal with suspicious activity.

Criminal AND suspicious activity.

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7 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

That has never been my position.  There are better ways for citizens to deal with suspicious activity.

 

6 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

Criminal AND suspicious activity.

that too.  there are better ways for citizens to deal with criminal and suspicious activity also. 

 

If he was in their actual house, I would have a different opinion.

If he was in their actual house with a weapon, I would have a different opinion.

 

For this situation, the most I would want those two doing might be to follow and let police know his whereabouts.  I do not believe that blocking his route with guns in hand is warranted.  

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15 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

 

that too.  there are better ways for citizens to deal with criminal and suspicious activity also. 

 

If he was in their actual house, I would have a different opinion.

If he was in their actual house with a weapon, I would have a different opinion.

 

For this situation, the most I would want those two doing might be to follow and let police know his whereabouts.  I do not believe that blocking his route with guns in hand is warranted.  

This guy gets it. 

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58 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

Well, why was it ok for ANTIFA thugs to scare the crap out of motorists driving where they wanted to go. Not only did they set up a roadblock, they were screaming in people's faces very threateningly, racial slurs while wearing masks etc. and this was all ok with everyone. What would have happened if someone acted "irrationally", frightened of being by these people and just hit the gas to get away and  ran over one of them? Or what if someone got out of his car and attacked. He would have had 10 people on top of him beating the crap out of him.

 

I don't think Antifa is OK.  I think they are a terrorist organization despite what NewbieBot says.  I presume your point is that the liberal side of society including the MSM gives such behavior a hall pass, and I agree with you.  

But I don't think that justifies setting up a road block with guns.  Two wrongs don't make a right.  :cheers:

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