Ahmaud Arbery

[Hardcore troubadour 15,427]

23 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

No, but he could run for a House seat.  Besides, even if that were true, I'm ok with it.  People should elect others because they share the same values.  Representatives should be holding up the values of their constituents.  My guess is that if he lived his whole life in CA, there's a chance he'd be a Republican.

And not a Senator. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

And not a Senator. 

Maybe... maybe not.  From 1977 to 1992, a Republican held one Senate seat in CA.  He may have been the governor at one point.

[dogcows 1,030]

8 hours ago, Voltaire said:

First, proximity to greatness isn't greatness. John Lewis was there for the marches and deserves respect for that but as racism has gradually faded out of existence, Lewis' role pivoted to keeping it alive and he spent the rest of his life as a Washington hack. Jesse Jackson deserves the same praise for his work back in the day, but he deserves even worse criticisms than Lewis as he went on to become an even worse race hustler than Lewis. Lewis was alive for the pivot to equity from equality. MLK was not about equity.

As for the McMichaels, asking the question "what do you think the crime was and at what should they be charged with?" would have been a more poignant to answer a couple of days ago before we heard back from the Feds. My quote about how I was wondering to see what they'd get charged with was from before they made their charges public. Look at the timestamp.  I didn't know what they would charge him with but I think the 'using, carrying, and brandishing a firearm' accusation may well be the answer. As for 'interfering with civil rights', I don't know what that means, my understanding is that the McMicahels dropped the n-bomb, so maybe that.  The attempted kidnapping charge seems meh. I don't like that one. They just wanted to detain him until the cops arrived. 

The McMichaels had the right it seems to me to chase him and possibly detain him and hold him for the police. Or not. I dunno. Georgia law seems to say they could and I think that's fair, but the Feds went for attempted kidnapping, so maybe they couldn't. To me, the mistake was trying to apprehend him with that rifle in his arms because that just accelerated everything. That rifle did him no good and taking it with him is what gets him in trouble.  Who knows what Arbery is thinking at that point, but seeing a guy chasing him and confronting him with a rifle.... maybe in the two seconds he had to make that decision, it didn't seem like a horrible idea to try to snatch it from the man's grip,, but that's what cost him his life.

They boxed him in. He assumed they would shoot him. It was obviously his last-ditch attempt at survival.

Georgia recently repealed the citizen’s arrest law that these killers will probably try to use as a defense. I assume because the law was in force at the time of the killing, their lawyers will be able to try and use it. But what they did wasn’t a citizen’s arrest. Here’s why:

Quote

Georgia’s citizen’s arrest law states that a private citizen can detain someone if they have reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion. Georgia has had this law on the books since 1863; most other states have similar laws as well.

But — that private citizen has to have witnessed someone committing a crime, or they have to have what the law calls “immediate knowledge” that a crime has been committed.

The Georgia Supreme Court has also ruled in several cases in the past about the use of force in a citizen’s arrest.

In a 2004 case, a convenience store owner shot an intruder who broke into the store after the store owner told him to halt. He then claimed he was performing a citizen's arrest. The supreme court said the measure of force used was disproportionate to the circumstance.

In another case, in 2017, a man chased someone whom he thought had burglarized his home. The homeowner attacked the man with a baseball bat. The court also found in that case that unnecessary force was used and it was not a legitimate citizen's arrest.

If you look at the circumstances and compare them to past precedent, it looks highly unlikely they will mount a successful defense. Link for the above quote is here:

https://www.gpb.org/news/2020/05/15/what-georgias-citizens-arrest-law-and-why-are-there-calls-repeal-it

And another source with info on the (former) law in Georgia: https://www.wsav.com/news/local-news/breaking-down-georgias-citizens-arrest-law/

They had no right to try and apprehend him under the old law, and I think that law is being changed mainly because it gives non-police the wrong idea... that they can “arrest” anybody they think is suspicious. They couldn’t before, and with the law change they can’t even pretend they thought they could.

[Fireballer 2,642]

25 minutes ago, dogcows said:

They boxed him in. He assumed they would shoot him. It was obviously his last-ditch attempt at survival.

Georgia recently repealed the citizen’s arrest law that these killers will probably try to use as a defense. I assume because the law was in force at the time of the killing, their lawyers will be able to try and use it. But what they did wasn’t a citizen’s arrest. Here’s why:

If you look at the circumstances and compare them to past precedent, it looks highly unlikely they will mount a successful defense. Link for the above quote is here:

https://www.gpb.org/news/2020/05/15/what-georgias-citizens-arrest-law-and-why-are-there-calls-repeal-it

And another source with info on the (former) law in Georgia: https://www.wsav.com/news/local-news/breaking-down-georgias-citizens-arrest-law/

They had no right to try and apprehend him under the old law, and I think that law is being changed mainly because it gives non-police the wrong idea... that they can “arrest” anybody they think is suspicious. They couldn’t before, and with the law change they can’t even pretend they thought they could.

Didn't read your all your links, but back when this happened, I advocated that these guys had no right to detain.  The law actually stated that knowledge of a FELONY had to be known if the subject is fleeing. This guy was a construction site scavenger.  A menace to your neighborhood?  Sure, but you can't persue and detain as a citizen.  

[Voltaire 5,316]

29 minutes ago, dogcows said:

They boxed him in. He assumed they would shoot him. It was obviously his last-ditch attempt at survival.

Georgia recently repealed the citizen’s arrest law that these killers will probably try to use as a defense. I assume because the law was in force at the time of the killing, their lawyers will be able to try and use it. But what they did wasn’t a citizen’s arrest. Here’s why:

If you look at the circumstances and compare them to past precedent, it looks highly unlikely they will mount a successful defense. Link for the above quote is here:

https://www.gpb.org/news/2020/05/15/what-georgias-citizens-arrest-law-and-why-are-there-calls-repeal-it

And another source with info on the (former) law in Georgia: https://www.wsav.com/news/local-news/breaking-down-georgias-citizens-arrest-law/

They had no right to try and apprehend him under the old law, and I think that law is being changed mainly because it gives non-police the wrong idea... that they can “arrest” anybody they think is suspicious. They couldn’t before, and with the law change they can’t even pretend they thought they could.

Makes sense.

Arbery was running with his hands empty, so they weren’t catching a thief, or maybe he grabbed something but dropped it, he has a history of many instances of doing snatch-and-runs.

Or maybe just trespassing itself is a crime. Your example of the guy shot for breaking and entering has me wondering.

[tanatastic 2,062]

People focus on the details that don’t matter. “They had no right to go after him...” “They falsely accused him...” “He wasn’t doing anything wrong...”  None of those things are relevant. There’s one and only one thing that is relevant. He attacked 2 men with guns. That’s it. I don’t care why or how he felt or what he did or didn’t do or what the men had a right to do or not do. He attacked 2 guys with guns, end of story. 
 

That was not his “last ditch effort to survive.” he had a countless number of smarter decisions to make that all result in him being alive today. He chose the only one that left him dead.

[jerryskids 6,794]

9 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Sounds like the Feds are overstepping their bounds.  Not surprised with Commie Joe in charge.

This is the one thing that bugs me about this -- this should be a state issue, but the Feds are inserting themselves beyond their jurisdiction.  

That being said, I think there is plenty of stupid to go around in this sad case.  Arbery was a known trespasser and thief, and went after two guys with guns.  But I could see him feeling like he was boxed in as @dogcowssaid, and feeling like he had no choice.  The good old boys seemed to be enjoying it a bit much, and if nothing else they were recklessly careless with the guns.

Basically I don't have a problem with them going to jail.  And for all I know, Georgia went to the feds and said look, we can't do much the way our stupid law is written, you may need to step in on this.  Even if true, the process still seems stinky.

[dogcows 1,030]

Terrible situation but I’m glad it seems most agree there needs to be some punishment for this…

[dogcows 1,030]

22 minutes ago, tanatastic said:

People focus on the details that don’t matter. “They had no right to go after him...” “They falsely accused him...” “He wasn’t doing anything wrong...”  None of those things are relevant. There’s one and only one thing that is relevant. He attacked 2 men with guns. That’s it. I don’t care why or how he felt or what he did or didn’t do or what the men had a right to do or not do. He attacked 2 guys with guns, end of story. 
 

That was not his “last ditch effort to survive.” he had a countless number of smarter decisions to make that all result in him being alive today. He chose the only one that left him dead.

I don’t know how I would respond if I was ambushed by people with guns. Would I run and risk getting shot in the back or would I fight and try to get the gun away? I imagine my adrenaline would kick in and I’d act on instinct. Blaming the victim in this case is ridiculous, IMHO.

[tanatastic 2,062]

2 hours ago, dogcows said:

I don’t know how I would respond if I was ambushed by people with guns. Would I run and risk getting shot in the back or would I fight and try to get the gun away? I imagine my adrenaline would kick in and I’d act on instinct. Blaming the victim in this case is ridiculous, IMHO.

They had no intention of shooting him in broad daylight and only acted in self defense. If he takes that gun they are both dead if they don’t shoot. They were shocked that he charged right at them. 99.999% you use guns to control people and keep the peace, not expecting it to be a gunfight. 

[Fireballer 2,642]

20 minutes ago, tanatastic said:

They had no intention of shooting him in broad daylight and only acted in self defense. If he takes that gun they are both dead if they don’t shoot. They were shocked that he charged right at them. 99.999% you use guns to control people and keep the peace, not expecting it to be a gunfight. 

You're missing alot of context to what happened prior to the shooting.  If I recall, the father/son and their buddy had engaged in an attempt to detain him by cutting off his route with two vehicles and brandishing a gun. Without legal authority to do so, thats an attempted kidnapping.  So, at the point before they shoot Arbrey, what would a reasonable person believe the group's motive is?  Why do you think the son stopped the truck and got out?  Why did the son go around to the front of the vehicle to engage Arbrey?

[IGotWorms 4,058]

3 hours ago, tanatastic said:

People focus on the details that don’t matter. “They had no right to go after him...” “They falsely accused him...” “He wasn’t doing anything wrong...”  None of those things are relevant. There’s one and only one thing that is relevant. He attacked 2 men with guns. That’s it. I don’t care why or how he felt or what he did or didn’t do or what the men had a right to do or not do. He attacked 2 guys with guns, end of story. 
 

That was not his “last ditch effort to survive.” he had a countless number of smarter decisions to make that all result in him being alive today. He chose the only one that left him dead.

Okay Arbery was a fockin dumbass.

So what?  

Doesn’t give some random Cletuses the right to kill him.

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 hour ago, IGotWorms said:

Okay Arbery was a fockin dumbass.

So what?  

Doesn’t give some random Cletuses the right to kill him.

A Cletus? What's your little nickname for black.people?

Plus, it was the black that attacked the white guy. He got what he asked for.

[Fireballer 2,642]

6 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

 

Plus, it was the black that attacked the white guy. He got what he asked for.

Here's where the issue lies.  The 3rd guy admitted they were trying to apprehend him earlier.  What was the son's intent in getting out of the truck?  Why did the son go and intentionally encounter Arbrey at the front of truck, when Arbrey made an intentional move to go around the passenger side to avoid the son?

[RLLD 4,230]

Wait, are they still pretending he was out for a run?  

[jerryskids 6,794]

12 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

Okay Arbery was a fockin dumbass.

So what?  

Doesn’t give some random Cletuses the right to kill him.

Like I said, plenty of stupid to go around.  The “right” to kill him came when he charged at the guy and tried to take the gun.  Unless you think the Cletuses, as you say,  had an obligation to let Arbery kill him.  Since you are a white-hating woketard, this actually wouldn’t surprise me.

What is your disparaging name for Arbery by the way?  We already have Cletus.  I’ll let you pick.  Something good, like “upstanding young jogger who surveyed construction sites for design ideas.”   

[edjr 6,580]

Sounds white

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,348]

16 hours ago, Fireballer said:

Didn't read your all your links, but back when this happened, I advocated that these guys had no right to detain.  The law actually stated that knowledge of a FELONY had to be known if the subject is fleeing. This guy was a construction site scavenger.  A menace to your neighborhood?  Sure, but you can't persue and detain as a citizen.  

Actually the law says suspected felony. They have the right to detain if they suspect there was a felony that occurred. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,427]

19 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Like I said, plenty of stupid to go around.  The “right” to kill him came when he charged at the guy and tried to take the gun.  Unless you think the Cletuses, as you say,  had an obligation to let Arbery kill him.  Since you are a white-hating woketard, this actually wouldn’t surprise me.

What is your disparaging name for Arbery by the way?  We already have Cletus.  I’ll let you pick.  Something good, like “upstanding young jogger who surveyed construction sites for design ideas.”   

Jerry the smarter is learning us real good. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,348]

It’s long but the Arberry case and much more is in here. Seems rational

[IGotWorms 4,058]

27 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Like I said, plenty of stupid to go around.  The “right” to kill him came when he charged at the guy and tried to take the gun.  Unless you think the Cletuses, as you say,  had an obligation to let Arbery kill him.  Since you are a white-hating woketard, this actually wouldn’t surprise me.

What is your disparaging name for Arbery by the way?  We already have Cletus.  I’ll let you pick.  Something good, like “upstanding young jogger who surveyed construction sites for design ideas.”   

Oh the aggrieved white guy act. My favorite  

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,348]

https://lawofselfdefense.com/ahmaud-arbery-felony-murder-based-on-attempted-false-imprisonment-may-22-2020/

[jerryskids 6,794]

1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

Oh the aggrieved white guy act. My favorite  

English please?

[IGotWorms 4,058]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

English please?

It was

[jerryskids 6,794]

1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

It was

Technically the words are in the dictionary but it isn’t very explanatory.  Oh well, go back to your mirror and punch yourself in your face some more for being white.   

[porkbutt 893]

24 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Oh the aggrieved white guy act. My favorite  

wow what a focking woketard. must suck to hate yourself

[Hardcore troubadour 15,427]

52 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Oh the aggrieved white guy act. My favorite  

The point he was making is you said both parties were foolish, yet you only disparaged one with an offensive term. How come? 

[Herbivore 1,134]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

Like I said, plenty of stupid to go around.  The “right” to kill him came when he charged at the guy and tried to take the gun.  Unless you think the Cletuses, as you say,  had an obligation to let Arbery kill him.  Since you are a white-hating woketard, this actually wouldn’t surprise me.

What is your disparaging name for Arbery by the way?  We already have Cletus.  I’ll let you pick.  Something good, like “upstanding young jogger who surveyed construction sites for design ideas.”   

victim

[Herbivore 1,134]

14 hours ago, tanatastic said:

They had no intention of shooting him in broad daylight and only acted in self defense. If he takes that gun they are both dead if they don’t shoot. They were shocked that he charged right at them. 99.999% you use guns to control people and keep the peace, not expecting it to be a gunfight. 

its funny that you say the 2 guys with guns chasing a guy had no intention of shooting him, but if that guy got the gun away from them he would definitely shoot them.  

[tanatastic 2,062]

9 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

its funny that you say the 2 guys with guns chasing a guy had no intention of shooting him, but if that guy got the gun away from them he would definitely shoot them.  

Ok. That’s just the case.

[jerryskids 6,794]

19 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

victim

Good job, that manages to capture the irrational belief that Arbery was completely without culpability into a single word.  Not very disparaging though.  

[RLLD 4,230]

 Shhhh  we are supposed to pretend it was a racial thing instead of a few idiots meeting up and doing dumb sh!t

[Herbivore 1,134]

2 hours ago, tanatastic said:

Ok. That’s just the case.

eh, more like what a bunch of terrible people might try to hang their hat on

[Herbivore 1,134]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Good job, that manages to capture the irrational belief that Arbery was completely without culpability into a single word.  Not very disparaging though.  

we should try not to disparage victims

[Voltaire 5,316]

5 hours ago, RLLD said:

Wait, are they still pretending he was out for a run?  

He was! Vincent James got his hands on the McMichaels’ defense lawyer’s filing which includes a report of Arbery’s criminal record. They include many instances of trespassing and petty theft and running.

‘The jogger’ is the nickname the convenience store workers he’d rob gave him.

Vincent James notes that Arbery’s criminal history reads like a kleptomaniac Forrest Gump.

[Gladiators 1,987]

17 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

He was! Vincent James got his hands on the McMichaels’ defense lawyer’s filing which includes a report of Arbery’s criminal record. They include many instances of trespassing and petty theft and running.

‘The jogger’ is the nickname the convenience store workers he’d rob gave him. His criminal history involves many instances of either trespassing or snatch-and-run.

Vincent James notes that Arbery’s criminal history reads like a kleptomaniac Forrest Gump.

Worms and Herby love guys like that.

[RLLD 4,230]

53 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

we should try not to disparage victims

So then pointing out factual behaviors is not ok?  Right?

[IGotWorms 4,058]

33 minutes ago, Gladiators said:

Worms and Herby love guys like that.

I don’t like thieves. However, I don’t believe you can just light ‘em up either.

HTH

[iam90sbaby 2,610]

16 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

A Cletus? What's your little nickname for black.people?

Plus, it was the black that attacked the white guy. He got what he asked for.

Monday's

[RLLD 4,230]

17 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

I don’t like thieves. However, I don’t believe you can just light ‘em up either.

HTH

This.  Does anyone honestly want rednecks rolling around in pickup trucks doling out justice?  I know I don't.

That being said, if someone.....anyone....decides to do dumb sh!t, just know...these rednecks are out there.... so steal if you want, but you might get shot, and I will laugh