Alec Baldwin killed a woman

[Strike 3,975]

2 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

You’re aware they were filming a movie, right?

He wasn’t just in some old church waving a gun around randomly like some lunatic. You know that, right?

WTF does this have to do with anything?  You don't get to break laws just because you're making a movie.  I asked yesterday but I feel compelled to ask again - Are you retarded?

[IGotWorms 3,315]

42 minutes ago, Strike said:

WTF does this have to do with anything?  You don't get to break laws just because you're making a movie.  I asked yesterday but I feel compelled to ask again - Are you retarded?

What law you stupid dipsh1t m0therfucker?  

[Strike 3,975]

18 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

What law you stupid dipsh1t m0therfucker?  

So the answer is yes, you are retarded.  Notebook updated Howard.

[tubby_mcgee 686]

6 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

You’re aware they were filming a movie, right?

He wasn’t just in some old church waving a gun around randomly like some lunatic. You know that, right?

Oh, so "Treat every gun as though it's loaded" only applies to conservatives?  Or who does it apply to?

[wiffleball 4,640]

7 minutes ago, tubby_mcgee said:

Oh, so "Treat every gun as though it's loaded" only applies to conservatives?  Or who does it apply to?

Most people just assume I'm usually loaded!

[IGotWorms 3,315]

11 minutes ago, tubby_mcgee said:

Oh, so "Treat every gun as though it's loaded" only applies to conservatives? 

[Strike 3,975]

15 minutes ago, wiffleball said:

Most people just assume I'm usually loaded!

For god sakes I hope that's a good assumption.  It's the only thing that explains your posts some days.

[wiffleball 4,640]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

For god sakes I hope that's a good assumption.  It's the only thing that explains your posts some days.

Well that's just mean.  

[craftsman 1,045]

1 hour ago, tubby_mcgee said:

Oh, so "Treat every gun as though it's loaded" only applies to conservatives?  Or who does it apply to?

Conservatives only. Liberals don't even try to hide anything anymore.

[craftsman 1,045]

20 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

What law you stupid dipsh1t m0therfucker?  

Murder. 

[Mike Honcho 4,033]

Actor Alec Baldwin alleges wrongdoing against ‘Rust’ film crew members in lawsuit

 

Actor Alec Baldwin on Friday filed a lawsuit in California against several individuals associated with the “Rust” film, according to a cross-complaint obtained by CNN.

Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was fatally shot by the actor last October during a rehearsal for a scene for the movie, which was being filmed near Santa Fe, New Mexico.

The lawsuit is the first legal action in which Baldwin alleges wrongdoing against someone in relation to the shooting.

[Mike Honcho 4,033]

551 Santa Fe Police Report

[Strike 3,975]

DA to announce whether they're filing charges against Baldwin today.  No news conference.  They're gonna announce it via a statement and social media, which makes me suspect they're going to decline to press charges. 

[Vikings4ever 496]

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/da-reveal-possible-charges-fatal-201000119.html

 

Quote

Alec Baldwin and armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed will each be charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter for the 2021 fatal shooting on the New Mexico set of the film "Rust," officials said Thursday.

 

[edjr 5,564]

Going to prison  

[Hardcore troubadour 12,644]

I’m surprised. Should be a hell of a trial. 

[Gepetto 987]

Have to have justice!

[Reality 2,710]

That's a shame.

[posty 2,296]

38 minutes ago, Vikings4ever said:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/da-reveal-possible-charges-fatal-201000119.html

I wonder why it took like 16 months to decide that they should face criminal charges?

[wiffleball 4,640]

I could see this not even going to trial. I doubt anybody's actually going to do any legitimate time.

[Mike Honcho 4,033]

On 10/25/2021 at 11:05 AM, Mike Honcho said:

Prop master(armorer) & Asst. Director probably will be the ones who will face charges, IMO.

The assistant director of "Rust" signed a plea agreement related to the deadly set shooting

From CNN's Elizabeth Joseph

Assistant director David Halls has signed a plea agreement for the charge of "negligent use of a deadly weapon," according to the New Mexico prosecutor who announced charges in the fatal "Rust" film set shooting Thursday.

The terms of that deal include six months of probation and a suspended sentence, according to a statement from New Mexico First Judicial District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies' office.

The statement added that charges will not be filed against film director Joel Souza.

CNN has reached out for comment from actor Alec Baldwin and armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed, who face involuntary manslaughter charges, and will reach out to Halls and Souza.

 

On 10/25/2021 at 11:17 AM, Mike Honcho said:

He was told it wasn't loaded. 

Should he have checked, yes---but I doubt he's required to do that(if charges are brought, I'm wrong).  The prop master and the Asst Director though are required to do that, that's why they will face charges IMO. 

 

 

On 10/25/2021 at 12:01 PM, Mike Honcho said:

The articles I read point the finger directly at the asst. director for much of the safety concerns.  I doubt as producer or actor he will face charges, but as producer will most likely be culpable for damages to the family in civil trail for not firing negligent AD after concerns had been raised.

 

On 10/25/2021 at 3:37 PM, Mike Honcho said:

It is uncontested that Baldwin fired a prop gun that killed Hutchins and wounded director Joel Souza. According to reports, Baldwin was handed the firearm by an assistant director who stated aloud that it was a "cold gun," meaning that it did not contain a live bullet round but a blank cartridge casing that simulates both the sound and visual image of a real gun when fired. According to details of the police investigation, the weapon was loaded with a live round.  

If it is true that Baldwin had no idea there was an actual bullet or other projectile in the gun, he would not be charged with the crime of murder because he had no intent to kill as the law requires. But that does not mean that the actor could not face a lesser charge of involuntary manslaughter – otherwise known as criminally negligent homicide.  

Under New Mexico law this is defined as a death caused by the failure to exercise "due caution." In other words, while it might have been an accident in the conventional sense, Baldwin could still be prosecuted and convicted upon a showing that he was reckless or grossly negligent.  

If Baldwin was merely a hired actor who simply followed directions on the set by relying on the assurance of the assistant director, there would be insufficient evidence to support an involuntary manslaughter charge against him. He would not be culpable at all under the law. But this was not the case during the shooting of the film.  

Baldwin served as an on-location producer for the movie. The terms of his contract are not known.  

Nevertheless, his additional role may have imposed upon him an affirmative duty of supervision for many aspects of the production, including some responsibility for the safety of the crew.  

 

On 10/27/2021 at 4:15 PM, Mike Honcho said:

I'll stick with my prediction.  Actor Baldwin is not charged at all. Producer Baldwin may face some criminal and most definitely civil costs. 

CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams said prosectors decided to charge actor Alec Baldwin with involuntary manslaughter in the death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins due to negligence.

"I'm not surprised at all about these charges, and particularly if you separate Alec Baldwin the actor from Alec Baldwin the producer. It would have been hard to see him charged with a crime in his capacity as an actor here. But he's being charged in effect as somebody who was responsible for what happened on the set. And what this involuntary manslaughter charge comes down to is negligence," Williams told CNN's Kate Bolduan. 

The law defines that "as duty of care that a reasonable person in a similar situation would have provided," he said.

It requires prosecutors to review incidents that have happened on other movie sets, he said.

But Williams said "this wasn't just a simple accident that happened on a movie set, at least according to the prosecutor, allegedly. What this is was such a failure from the leadership on the movie set that led to an incredibly tragic death."

On 10/28/2021 at 9:45 AM, Mike Honcho said:

And if he is, I'll admit I was wrong, I'm sure you will do the same when he's not.

----Not sure if I'm wrong or not, I'm sure most will say I was. Seems the legal analyst came to the same conclusion as I did, "involuntary Manslaughter" for being negligent as a producer. Probably need to hear the trial to see if that's how the DA presents the case. 

On 11/4/2021 at 8:24 PM, Mike Honcho said:

The only charge that I see that you could possibly think of charging Baldwin with under New Mexico law is "Involuntary Manslaughter"

Actors on sets are pretending that they are doing dangerous things all the time.  They are playing with fake grenades, C4, knives and guns and are dependent on the experts who perform the safety checks that the equipment they are using is safe and not deadly. AD Halls says that the armorer Gutierrrez Reed showed him the gun, spun the barrel and he thought he saw 3 rounds in it(he didn't fully inspect it). Reed said they were 'dummy' rounds and she pulled them from a box of dummy rounds. On a movie set, dummy rounds are rounds that look nearly identical to a bullet when viewed by the camera, but contain no gunpowder.  They are usually filled with BB's, and marked with an indent in the  case to show that they are dummies.  It appears Hall did not physically remove the bullets to check them as is his job and responsibility and that Gutierrez-Reed just grabbed them from a box labeled dummies and didn't inspect them. There are a lot of steps that go into making sure a gun is safe and that's why productions hire experts rather than relying on an actor to be in charge of the safety. Performers certainly aren't experts at differentiating between dummy and live rounds.  

Halls then hands the gun to Baldwin and called out 'cold gun', indicating that the gun has been checked.  As far as Baldwin knows, he's been given something no more dangerous than a rock . Baldwin doesn't think he's been given a gun with blanks and certainly not a gun with live rounds. Baldwin, the actor,  appears to be following ALL the safety protocols that he has been asked to follow.

To prove involuntary manslaughter (from legalmatch.com ) you  need to show three things; someone died as a result of the an action by the defendant;  the act was inherently dangerous or reckless; and third the defendant should have known the act threatened the lives of others.

So the question is did Baldwin act recklessly or should have known that pulling the trigger during rehearsal could have threatened the lives of others?  He didn't just grab a random gun from the prop cart and start pointing it at people and pulling the trigger. What he did was use a gun for rehearsing that he was told was inspected by 2 people and only contained dummy rounds.  To conclude that he acted recklessly or without due caution you have to believe that it's Baldwin's responsibility the then check the gun again and be able to distinguish live rounds from dummy rounds. In effect, taking out and inspecting each bullet himself. I just don't think any DA's going to come the conclusion that doing that was Baldwins responsibility.

Let me give you a for instance...Saving Private Ryan, the beach scene.  Is it reasonable to think that every actor, in the name of safety, is opening every prop weapon, inspecting them, inspecting each bullet, reloading them and then declaring them safe for use. Is it even reasonable to believe that all of those extras would even know how to do any of that, or know what was a dummy round vs live, or whether it was a prop gun(one specifically designed only to fire blanks, but without a barrel large enough to let a bullet pass through) vs a real gun?  The answer is no.  There are checks and safeties on a movie set and unless we hear later find out that Baldwin wasn't following them i don't think he's charged with involuntary manslaughter.

The AD and the armorer, who both handed him a gun that contained a live round(dummies are marked and contain bb's that rattle) are the ones I think will be found culpable.  Along with the person who brought live ammunition on to the set(the shooting at cans person).  

So I was right about the armorer and AD, and possibly right about Baldwin facing charges as the producer and was correct with "involuntary manslaughter". I could be wrong if those charges are against him as the actor though, again have to see how the DA presents the case and see the charging document. 

[Mike Honcho 4,033]

Just saw this...

Quote

 

Baldwin should have checked gun he was holding, district attorney says

From CNN's Stella Chan

Alec Baldwin had a responsibility on the set of “Rust” to check the gun he was holding, according to New Mexico First Judicial District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies.

“Every person that handles a gun has a duty to make sure, if they are going to handle that gun - point it at someone and pull the trigger – that it is not going to fire a projectile and kill someone, and this is really about justice for Halyna Hutchins,” she said to CNN’s Josh Campbell minutes after announcing charges in the case. 

“An actor doesn’t get a free pass just because they’re an actor,” she said. 

Baldwin was both an actor and producer for the movie.

“He’s being charged as both. He was the actor that pulled the trigger, so certainly he’s charged as an actor, but also as a producer he also had a duty to make sure that the set was safe,” said Carmack-Altwies, noting that people on set had complained about the lax safety and there had been accidental misfires prior to this fatal incident.

“He should have been aware that safety was an issue on set and then as an actor that day, he should have checked that gun, checked those projectiles,” she said.

 

I was wrong that he would not be charged as an actor.  

[edjr 5,564]

This is the biggest railroad since B&O 

[The Real timschochet 2,933]

Not a fan of the guy but..I dunno. Does he really deserve to be charged for this? It feels like the DA is seeking publicity to me. 

[Strike 3,975]

Honcho,

  I give you credit for owning up to being partially wrong.  And I say partially because you were always open to the possibility of criminal charges, at least as producer of the film.  However, you did agree with Worm's analysis and said the only reason some of us were disputing his analysis was, and I post one of your quotes that you conveniently left out above:

Quote

Because Baldwin made fun of Trump and is a liberal.  

Not sure why you felt the need to bring politics in to this but whatever.  In any event, I wonder if @IGotWorms and @GobbleDog will be as gracious as you and admit they were wrong......

[Strike 3,975]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Not a fan of the guy but..I dunno. Does he really deserve to be charged for this? It feels like the DA is seeking publicity to me. 

Or maybe just justice.....

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,517]

18 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Not a fan of the guy but..I dunno. Does he really deserve to be charged for this? It feels like the DA is seeking publicity to me. 

The DEFACTO #1 Rule for all gun training that has been done since the history of guns is to always check if the gun is loaded.  Always.  Every time.  There are ZERO exceptions.  

Even if you trust that person who handed it to you.  EVEN if you see another person checking first and then that person hands it to you.  If you do not check for a loaded gun you are also responsible for anything that happens after that.   There are no exceptions.

You don't get to play the, "Well, I was just following orders". 

[craftsman 1,045]

19 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

The DEFACTO #1 Rule for all gun training that has been done since the history of guns is to always check if the gun is loaded.  Always.  Every time.  There are ZERO exceptions.  

Even if you trust that person who handed it to you.  EVEN if you see another person checking first and then that person hands it to you.  If you do not check for a loaded gun you are also responsible for anything that happens after that.   There are no exceptions.

You don't get to play the, "Well, I was just following orders". 

Baldwin's lawyer is going hard after Baldwin's coworkers. Blaming them and saying Baldwin is not responsible at all. 

I hope both Baldwin and his lawyer get the prison.

[Dizkneelande 839]

43 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Not a fan of the guy but..I dunno. Does he really deserve to be charged for this? It feels like the DA is seeking publicity to me. 

He was also a producer. When a camerawoman was killed filming Midnight Rider, the producer, director and assistant director were all convicted.

[posty 2,296]

"Hey, Ryan, be careful what you shoot at. Most things in here don't react too well to bullets."

[GobbleDog 816]

54 minutes ago, Strike said:

Not sure why you felt the need to bring politics in to this but whatever.  In any event, I wonder if @IGotWorms and @GobbleDog will be as gracious as you and admit they were wrong......

I said it didn't seem like Badlwin was negligent.  And at the time it didn't, so I wasn't wrong.  Now that he's being charged, maybe he was.

I don't care either way, as long as justice is served. Unlike some posters here who just want liberal blood.

[Mike Hunt 154]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Not a fan of the guy but..I dunno. Does he really deserve to be charged for this? It feels like the DA is seeking publicity to me. 

Well is you have a couple drinks and drive , then kill someone you will be charged with vehicular manslaughter. Driver is responsible for a person's death.

Anyone who handles a real gun and is going to shoot it at another person has to make sure that real gun is not loaded with live ammo.  So, like him or not Baldwin is responsible for a lady getting killed and another injured.

It will probably be a plea deal and he will only serve a year or two.

[iam90sbaby 2,125]

Good

[GobbleDog 816]

16 minutes ago, Mike Hunt said:

It will probably be a plea deal and he will only serve a year or two.

I'm cool with whatever the judge decides. I have no dog in this race.

But if I had to guess... 2 years probation.

[The Real timschochet 2,933]

1 hour ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

The DEFACTO #1 Rule for all gun training that has been done since the history of guns is to always check if the gun is loaded.  Always.  Every time.  There are ZERO exceptions.  

Even if you trust that person who handed it to you.  EVEN if you see another person checking first and then that person hands it to you.  If you do not check for a loaded gun you are also responsible for anything that happens after that.   There are no exceptions.

You don't get to play the, "Well, I was just following orders". 

You do make a compelling argument. 

[GobbleDog 816]

1 hour ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

The DEFACTO #1 Rule for all gun training that has been done since the history of guns is to always check if the gun is loaded.  Always.  Every time.  There are ZERO exceptions.  

Even if you trust that person who handed it to you.  EVEN if you see another person checking first and then that person hands it to you.  If you do not check for a loaded gun you are also responsible for anything that happens after that.   There are no exceptions.

You don't get to play the, "Well, I was just following orders". 

What if you're an actor shooting a cannon, bazooka, or a tank? Check the cannon, bazooka or tank?  What if the scene calls for shooting a machine gun with bullets on a ribbon? Check every bullet in the ribbon? Surely there's some weapons or scenarios where it's impracticable, and actors have to rely on professionals, no?

I agree in this situation - checking a revolver is about as simple as it gets.

[craftsman 1,045]

1 hour ago, Dizkneelande said:

He was also a producer. When a camerawoman was killed filming Midnight Rider, the producer, director and assistant director were all convicted.

Good. Nail him twice. 1 for producer, and one for trigger man.

[craftsman 1,045]

4 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

What if you're an actor shooting a cannon, bazooka, or a tank? Check the cannon, bazooka or tank?  What if the scene calls for shooting a machine gun with bullets on a ribbon? Check every bullet in the ribbon? Surely there's some weapons or scenarios where it's impracticable, and actors have to rely on professionals, no?

I agree in this situation - checking a revolver is about as simple as it gets.

Yeah honestly. Make someone prove to you that whatever you are shooting is not loaded and that you can see it with your own eyes. You need to be convinced. I don't think that is too much to ask for your own peace of mind and for your own protection in case something goes wrong.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Not a fan of the guy but..I dunno. Does he really deserve to be charged for this? It feels like the DA is seeking publicity to me. 

Yeah, the best way to make a name for yourself, as a Democrat, is to charge a well known Trump-hating Democrat of a gun crime (of all things), that Democrats didn't expect anything to happen to.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

2 hours ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

The DEFACTO #1 Rule for all gun training that has been done since the history of guns is to always check if the gun is loaded.  Always.  Every time.  There are ZERO exceptions.  

Even if you trust that person who handed it to you.  EVEN if you see another person checking first and then that person hands it to you.  If you do not check for a loaded gun you are also responsible for anything that happens after that.   There are no exceptions.

You don't get to play the, "Well, I was just following orders". 

It's funny how Democrats always blame legal/responsible gun owners when someone else commits a gun crime and find excuses for the irresponsible person who's actually committing the gun crime.