jerryskids 5,206 Posted October 2, 2017 Cherry picking? Compare US with ANY first world country. What "other, contributing, factors" are there? We have the most liberal gun laws and highest gun violence rates. You don't see a connection? His point is that "gun violence rate" is a red herring, because in places where it is harder to get guns, they commit violence with other weapons. So the real comparison is overall murder, rape, battery, etc. rates. If they are statistically significantly higher here, then there is a discussion to be had on the tradeoffs of gun ownership IMO. HTH. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,643 Posted October 2, 2017 Sounds like this guy was doing major gambling. Ten twenty thirty thousand in a day. By the way, his dad was a bank robber before him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fricker66 91 Posted October 2, 2017 Don't be daft man! We have the most liberal gun laws- AND - the highest rates of diabetes. Clearly, there's a link... Assume you are linking Type 2. What fat person doesn't love a gun? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GobbleDog 816 Posted October 2, 2017 His point is that "gun violence rate" is a red herring, because in places where it is harder to get guns, they commit violence with other weapons.The Las Vegas victims wish the shooter had used other weapons too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 5,206 Posted October 2, 2017 The Las Vegas victims wish the shooter had used other weapons too. If the same number of people had been killed by a bomb or a truck, I can't imagine why they would care what method killed them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reality 2,710 Posted October 2, 2017 Man, focked up situation. Prayers for the families. Carry on with the meaningless back and forth fellas. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,125 Posted October 2, 2017 When gun violence rates are consistent with every other first world country, then I'll agree with gun rights. A slight drop in those stats is meaningless. Of course there are more murders with guns in a country that grants its citizens the right to own them, duh. Nothing is ground breaking about that. What you fail to realize is it wont drop murders rates and there will just become a new most deadly weapon. All so a bunch of people that dont give a fock about our lives can feel safer. Also as Ive said before its a trade off. Ill trade a little safety for more freedoms. I dont want to live in a world where every single thing we do is regulated or controled in some form or fashion. Maybe you do. Also there are certain groups and individuals that if they started behaving like they lived in a first world country would fix a lot of issues. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GobbleDog 816 Posted October 2, 2017 Ill trade a little safety for more freedoms.With guns, you're trading A LOT of safety for a very minor freedom. It's a bad deal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMMensaMind 459 Posted October 2, 2017 When did he start coming over here anyway? He's worse than the sissy slap fighters we already have here. I haven't talked to you at all, but you decided to respond in this manner, making you one of those that you call a 'sissy slap fighter'. The problem is you. I'm not trying to insult anyone. I'm trying to engage in the debates in threads that interest me. Got a problem with that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 5,206 Posted October 2, 2017 With guns, you're trading A LOT of safety for a very minor freedom. It's a bad deal. Do you understand the red herring point? If not it is worthless to continue the discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 3,979 Posted October 2, 2017 With guns, you're trading A LOT of safety for a very minor freedom. It's a bad deal. No you're not. I could literally post daily about how a person having a gun saved them. You focus on one incident like this but guns save people constantly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,083 Posted October 2, 2017 I'd happily vote for a law that makes semi-automatic weapons illegal and any fully that are available with certain licenses. You can defend your self/home, hunt and get your rocks off with shotguns, rifles, revolvers, etc. That's where I draw my line between American Rights vs. Common sense regulation in a modern society. With that said, you'll never stop a crazy / radical person from doing crazy and radical stuff. They'll always be "terrorism". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Guy 1,400 Posted October 2, 2017 Five things that just dont add up about the Las Vegas mass shooting https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-10-02-five-things-that-just-dont-add-up-about-the-las-vegas-mass-shooting.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,567 Posted October 2, 2017 Think maybe the thread title can be updated? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,586 Posted October 2, 2017 Think maybe the thread title can be updated? done, I stayed away from posting, as its not the time to get caught up in the politics, the anti guns, the anything, I had a dozen friends there, all are thank God ok, but all of them witnessed people dying in front of them I care about nothing more than the people attacked Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shorepatrol 1,737 Posted October 2, 2017 I'd happily vote for a law that makes semi-automatic weapons illegal and any fully that are available with certain licenses. You can defend your self/home, hunt and get your rocks off with shotguns, rifles, revolvers, etc. That's where I draw my line between American Rights vs. Common sense regulation in a modern society. With that said, you'll never stop a crazy / radical person from doing crazy and radical stuff. They'll always be "terrorism". Your last statement makes your first statement completely retarded Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baker Boy 1,485 Posted October 2, 2017 With guns, you're trading A LOT of safety for a very minor freedom. It's a bad deal. It is a matter of perception. Alcohol kills a lot more people than guns. Cars kill more people that guns Etc. etc.A minor freedom to you is a major freedom to me. North Korea and China have gun control and it is very effective there, is that what you are looking for? A small fraction of gun owners kill others. Criminals will have guns no matter what the restrictions Criminals will replace guns with bombs, cars, Acid, etc. Cops are at least 10 minutes away from a 30 second crisis. Anyone who trust only the authorities to protect them is a fool Over half of gun deaths are suicides Number of guns and gun owners in USA. Most estimates range between 39% and 50% of US households having at least one gun (that's about 43-55 million households). The estimates for the number of privately owned guns range from 190 million to 300 million. Dont lose sight of the big picture when looking at gun control. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vuduchile 1,941 Posted October 2, 2017 [quote name="IMMensaMind" post="6041881" timestamp="1506969633 Got a problem with that? Yes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GobbleDog 816 Posted October 2, 2017 Do you understand the red herring point? If not it is worthless to continue the discussion.Your red herring point being "without guns, people will just use other means to kill..." Per Wiki - homicide rates: US 4.88 Japan 0.31 Austria 0.51 Norway 0.56 Ireland 0.64 Spain 0.66 Switzerland 0.69 Poland 0.72 South Korea 0.74 Italy 0.78 Germany 0.85 Greece 0.85 New Zealand 0.91 UK 0.92 Australia 0.98 France 1.58 Canada 1.68 Shockingly, the stats do not support your theory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,083 Posted October 2, 2017 Your last statement makes your first statement completely retardedHow so? The point of my last statement was to infer that no matter how much gun control a society has, its not some magic bullet to stop mass violence. Just look at attacks with vans in the streets or homemade bombs like Boston Marathon. But we can try to the best of our ability, thru common sense regulations try to mitigate the damage. We already have gun control in the U.S. Over time, as society has evolved and more and more weaponry has been manufactured our society tries to deem what is okay for public consumption and what should only be military type consumption. Things like grenades, fully automatic guns, etc. I'm simply saying I'd add semi-auto guns to that side of the ledger (Military only). And keep most shotguns, rifles, handguns like revolvers, etc. legal for public consumption. It's where I'd draw the line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,125 Posted October 2, 2017 Your red herring point being "without guns, people will just use other means to kill..." Per Wiki - homicide rates: US 4.88 Japan 0.31 Austria 0.51 Norway 0.56 Ireland 0.64 Spain 0.66 Switzerland 0.69 Poland 0.72 South Korea 0.74 Italy 0.78 Germany 0.85 Greece 0.85 New Zealand 0.91 UK 0.92 Australia 0.98 France 1.58 Canada 1.68 Shockingly, the stats do not support your theory. It is worth noting that 50%+ of crimes are committed by black individuals (males specifically) while making up only 13% of the population. And more often than not the firearm in possession is illegal. Just saying. I wonder what the homicide/crime rate in Japan or Norway if they had to deal with that broken community. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GobbleDog 816 Posted October 2, 2017 I'm simply saying I'd add semi-auto guns to that side of the ledger (Military only).I'd be for that! Along with all other firearms. Single-shot bolt action rifles only, for those who can pass a lengthy background check and afford the $5,000 license. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,315 Posted October 2, 2017 It is worth noting that 50%+ of crimes are committed by black individuals (males specifically) while making up only 13% of the population. And more often than not the firearm in possession is illegal. Just saying. I wonder what the homicide/crime rate in Japan or Norway if they had to deal with that broken community. I'm sorta confused what your racist vitriol is doing in this thread. You post all kinds of racist sh1t so I'm not that surprised, but this shooter wasn't black so I guess I'm wondering what the fock you're doing bringing that into here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 3,979 Posted October 2, 2017 Your red herring point being "without guns, people will just use other means to kill..." Per Wiki - homicide rates: US 4.88 Japan 0.31 Austria 0.51 Norway 0.56 Ireland 0.64 Spain 0.66 Switzerland 0.69 Poland 0.72 South Korea 0.74 Italy 0.78 Germany 0.85 Greece 0.85 New Zealand 0.91 UK 0.92 Australia 0.98 France 1.58 Canada 1.68 Shockingly, the stats do not support your theory. Shockingly you do not post a link to where you got your data. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,567 Posted October 2, 2017 Shockingly you do not post a link to where you got your data. Facebook Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,586 Posted October 2, 2017 Your red herring point being "without guns, people will just use other means to kill..." Per Wiki - homicide rates: US 4.88 Japan 0.31 Austria 0.51 Norway 0.56 Ireland 0.64 Spain 0.66 Switzerland 0.69 Poland 0.72 South Korea 0.74 Italy 0.78 Germany 0.85 Greece 0.85 New Zealand 0.91 UK 0.92 Australia 0.98 France 1.58 Canada 1.68 Shockingly, the stats do not support your theory. you can read this whole article if you like, but the thing I would like you to focus on is homicide rates in the neat little graph they posted at the bottom you will see the homicide rate has remained the same as it always has been prior to the gun ban http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp re:Austrailia re: Austrailia, UK, Ireland United Kingdom: The UK enacted its handgun ban in 1996. From 1990 until the ban was enacted, the homicide rate fluctuated between 10.9 and 13 homicides per million. After the ban was enacted, homicides trended up until they reached a peak of 18.0 in 2003. Since 2003, which incidentally was about the time the British government flooded the country with 20,000 more cops, the homicide rate has fallen to 11.1 in 2010. In other words, the 15-year experiment in a handgun ban has achieved absolutely nothing. Ireland: Ireland banned firearms in 1972. Irelands homicide rate was fairly static going all the way back to 1945. In that period, it fluctuated between 0.1 and 0.6 per 100,000 people. Immediately after the ban, the murder rate shot up to 1.6 per 100,000 people in 1975. It then dropped back down to 0.4. It has trended up, reaching 1.4 in 2007. Australia: Australia enacted its gun ban in 1996. Murders have basically run flat, seeing only a small spike after the ban and then returning almost immediately to preban numbers. It is currently trending down, but is within the fluctuations exhibited in other nations. Plain and simple. Gun control has no significant impact on murder rates. Removing firearms does not typically create massive lawlessness. It is a moot point. These figures arent a secret. Why would the governments of these nations want a disarmed populace? For the answer, it is best to look at a nation that has had long-time gun bans that is currently relaxing their laws. Russia recently relaxed its firearms laws. For the first time in recent memory, a Russian citizen can carry a firearm. The prohibited items speak volumes about what a governments motive behind disarming the population is. Russia has allowed smoothbore long barrelled guns, pistols, revolvers, and other firearms, as well as Tasers, and devices equipped with teargas. Thats almost everything, what is still banned? Rifles. So the Russian government has made it clear that the real objective is to remove rifles from civilian hands. The reasoning is pretty clear: you need rifles to overthrow a government. I don't want this thread to be about gun control but you need some straightening out on facts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 3,979 Posted October 2, 2017 Your red herring point being "without guns, people will just use other means to kill..." Per Wiki - homicide rates: US 4.88 Japan 0.31 Austria 0.51 Norway 0.56 Ireland 0.64 Spain 0.66 Switzerland 0.69 Poland 0.72 South Korea 0.74 Italy 0.78 Germany 0.85 Greece 0.85 New Zealand 0.91 UK 0.92 Australia 0.98 France 1.58 Canada 1.68 Shockingly, the stats do not support your theory. It's ok. I think I found it. From your own link (I think): -------------------------------------------- This chart does not use the very latest data due to differences in how intentional homicide is defined, collected, and calculated for each country. In order to have more consistent, continuous, and reliable oversight only the latest UNODC sourcing is used for this section on countries.[1] When using the figures, any cross-national comparison should be conducted with caution because of the differences that exist between the legal definitions of offences in countries, the different methods of offence counting and recording and differences in the share of criminal offences that are not reported to or detected by law enforcement authorities (i.e. the dark figure).[1] -------------------------------------------- They make very clear you shouldn't use this to compare countries, which is EXACTLY what you're doing. No wonder you chose not to post the link. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,125 Posted October 2, 2017 I'm sorta confused what your racist vitriol is doing in this thread. You post all kinds of racist sh1t so I'm not that surprised, but this shooter wasn't black so I guess I'm wondering what the fock you're doing bringing that into here? It isn't racist, its true. It should be addressed so that it can be fixed. Gobble and I's conversation shifted away from the LV event clearly. Thanks for chiming in though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,656 Posted October 2, 2017 Your red herring point being "without guns, people will just use other means to kill..." Per Wiki - homicide rates: US 4.88 Japan 0.31 Austria 0.51 Norway 0.56 Ireland 0.64 Spain 0.66 Switzerland 0.69 Poland 0.72 South Korea 0.74 Italy 0.78 Germany 0.85 Greece 0.85 New Zealand 0.91 UK 0.92 Australia 0.98 France 1.58 Canada 1.68 Shockingly, the stats do not support your theory. That's fine, but you should also show how many murders are prevented by guns. Not saying it is some earth shattering number, but you would have to deduct them from the amount killed. Just sayin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMMensaMind 459 Posted October 2, 2017 Yes And what are you going to do about it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,586 Posted October 2, 2017 just found out my next door neighbors daughters friend was shot in the head while covering someone else, she is expected to survive though thankfully 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMMensaMind 459 Posted October 2, 2017 I'm sorta confused what your racist vitriol is doing in this thread. You post all kinds of racist sh1t so I'm not that surprised, but this shooter wasn't black so I guess I'm wondering what the fock you're doing bringing that into here? JFR: when someone posts something like "50% of murders are committed by blacks, yet they are only 13% of the population", it isn't a 'racist' comment. It it a comment that considers race. Learn the difference, and join civilized conversation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMMensaMind 459 Posted October 2, 2017 Five things that just dont add up about the Las Vegas mass shooting https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-10-02-five-things-that-just-dont-add-up-about-the-las-vegas-mass-shooting.html Questions should always be asked of this sort of stuff. I'll add to #5, which I noticed about an hour ago, as reported on both CNN and MSNBC: When it was reported that "ISIS has taken responsibility for this shooting", the anchors of both networks also included a seemingly illogical response from the FBI, which said - nearly verbatim on both networks - that "the FBI denies ISIS involvement. The FBI will be searching the assailant's computers for evidence of associations". Oh? Then why deny before investigating? That was odd and illogical. Unless one is cynically thinking that the FBI already knows how and why this happened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parrot 789 Posted October 2, 2017 Your last statement makes your first statement completely retarded Why? Some problems don't have perfect answers. We can still work the problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5-Points 2,731 Posted October 2, 2017 That's fine, but you should also show how many murders are prevented by guns. Not saying it is some earth shattering number, but you would have to deduct them from the amount killed. Just sayin.Not just murders, how many rapes, muggings, robberies, burglaries....? Estimates vary but they range from the 100's of thousands to 2+ million annual instances of defensive gun use in America. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cdub100 3,381 Posted October 2, 2017 It is worth noting that 50%+ of crimes are committed by black individuals (males specifically) while making up only 13% of the population. And more often than not the firearm in possession is illegal. Just saying. I wonder what the homicide/crime rate in Japan or Norway if they had to deal with that broken community. The blacks who make up more than 50% of those homicides are around 3% of the population. And most of those are black on black murders. So yeah if you remove one race from our stats that number drastically reduces. It's also the same for education except we rise to top 5. But as youve already seen pointing out these 100% true facts makes you a racist. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cdub100 3,381 Posted October 2, 2017 Not just murders, how many rapes, muggings, robberies, burglaries....? Estimates vary but they range from the 100's of thousands to 2+ million annual instances of defensive gun use in America. The guy who shot up a church just a little over a week ago was stopped by a citizen with a gun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baker Boy 1,485 Posted October 2, 2017 CBS fires vice president who said Vegas victims didn't deserve sympathy because country music fans 'often are Republican' http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/10/02/top-cbs-lawyer-no-sympathy-for-vegas-vics-probably-republicans.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,643 Posted October 2, 2017 Five things that just dont add up about the Las Vegas mass shooting https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-10-02-five-things-that-just-dont-add-up-about-the-las-vegas-mass-shooting.html Did I call this or what? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,567 Posted October 2, 2017 Five things that just dont add up about the Las Vegas mass shooting https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-10-02-five-things-that-just-dont-add-up-about-the-las-vegas-mass-shooting.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
